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Last edited by jjang1993; 09-06-2022 at 05:37 PM.
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11-18-2015 01:00 AM
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Firstly, a guitar is not a piano. And thank God for that!
I think heavier strings may be a red herring here, since the term "full" probably refers to harmonic content and range, not tone. Personally I'd stick with strings that help you play more comfortably, and hence enable you to float around with greater facility in order to execute better lines - perhaps with better bass line movement and switching easily between low and high registers.
Heavier strings will also mean greater tension and more resistance to your pick, so that you get more pick attack in your sound, which is usually not "fat" at all.
I'll leave the physical limits of very heavy strings on an Epi to those who have tried it... I only wear 12's on my archtops and have maxed out at 13's in the past.
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Roger possesses great wisdom and offers great advice.
I have played archtop guitars for 45 years. On purely acoustic archtops built in the 30s-40s, I have played with strings as heavy as 14-56 gauge with good results. On electric-acoustic archtop guitars, I have used strings up to the Thomastik-Infeld George Benson 14-55 flatwound strings with excellent results. They are lower tension strings than, say, a corresponding set from D'Addario.
On my Gibson ES-175 (24-3/4" scale) and my ES-335 (also 24-3/4" scale) I kept TI Jazz Swing 12-50 and 11-47, respectively. Both guitars sounded very full and jazzy. On my big electric archtops--i.e., 25-1/5" scale--I use TI JS 13-53 flats with excellent results, though the 12 set would work very well, too.
Roger is right in pointing out that a lot has to do not with tone, but with what sort of tension you desire at the point of impact of the pick. Frankly, the 11-47 set _sound_ very full. They just offer too little resistance to my pick for some of the playing style I want from a big archtop.
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I have run 14 for my high E and 18 for my B string on my three main guitars without any problems, and I experimented with a 15 for my high E on a Les Paul once and it was fine...and sounded glorious too.
But I think you're going to run into problems running 16-22-30-40-50-60 in standard pitch.
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"16-22-30-40-50-60 in standard pitch" ... Whoa! That's Dick Dale and the Deltones territory. Dick Dale strings up his Stratocaster with monstrously heavy strings...at standard pitch. The tension is how he is able to have the pick resistance necessary to permit him to attack the guitar the way he does on instrumental hits like "Misirlou."
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13s are more than plenty in standard. if its somehow lacking, check the nut and bridge, maybe replace those with something fancier if they aren't to you liking. failing that, its the guitar or you.
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re - "I was wondering if it would be possible"
If you really want to find out: string em up and let us know what you think about the tone and playability. It doesn't sound like any one here has experience with 16's on a short scale hollow body.
“Healthy curiosity is a great key in innovation.”
― Ifeanyi Enoch Onuoha
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I have to agree with Roger and others that heavier strings don't automatically equal fatter tone. The issue with the piano vs guitar is many octave range of the piano vs the 3-4 octave range of the guitar, which can be exploited in only a few keys unlike the pianist's ability to do so in all keys. We have a maximum of 6 notes, they have 10.
I find that the nylon string guitar has a wider apparent range than the steel string guitar. The tone of the bass strings is usually richer, in particular, and I think that the warmth that can be achieved is often what Jim Hall was reaching for with his dark, warm tone. Note that he also played rather light strings, as did Ed Bickert. On the other hand, Pete Bernstein plays fairly heavy strings with a very wide, rich sound.
Personally if the singers prefer the pianists that's good for me. There have been few singers I have enjoyed playing with so far (and some I have really enjoyed- they were musicians).
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pianos have strings in pairs and
triples so they're cheating really !
solo guitar you can't compete with a piano
luckily its not a competition !
maybe guitar + bass duo can cover the
same amount of ground ... ish
but guitar can sing more on lines than pno
also guitar can be funkier probably
I went up the guages till 13 or 14 top
then stopped on a 24.74" ibanez box
the guitar itself could easily take it ....
but that feels good to me
if i went higher it would be just the E string
I find the tone good but maybe I'd want
bit more heft to the top string to make
melodies poke out a bit more .... dunno
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I've found that fatter strings = fatter toneI have to agree with Roger and others that heavier strings don't automatically equal fatter tone.
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Pingu,
Right you are...a guitar cannot compete with a piano. A solid-body amplified with about 150 watts will do it, but it is a train wreck.
Bluthner pianos, by the way, have _even_ more strings--they have sympathetic strings that vibrate _above_ the strings that are struck by the hammers. Life is unfair.
("Bluthner aliquot" by Lkruijsw - Own work. Licensed under Public Domain via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...er_aliquot.jpg)
Here is a picture of the Bluthner system--the "aliquot" system--an extra, fourth short string for each triplet that is not struck by the hammer, but rings sympathetically:
Last edited by Greentone; 11-19-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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I use LaBella 15-56 flatwounds on my electric guitars. Not because the sound is "fatter" than say 12-52. I use them because the two unwound strings are less ringing than thinner gauges and thus balances better in sound with the (flat)wound strings. Also they stay in tune longer and last almost for ever.
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jjang1993, I'm hoping that your lack of reply to these helpful folks is not because you already attempted to tune a set of 16-60 strings up to pitch, causing your headstock to snap clean off, smack your forehead, and render you unconscious. I sincerely hope it is just because you are overwhelmed with appreciation over the response you got here.
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Mr. Pat Martino's personal string preference: Flat wound .016, .018, .026, .032, .042, .052 or .015, .017, .024, .032, .042, .052.
The OP could take a leaf out of Pat Martino's book.
The other way is to use your heavy gauge strings and down-tune your guitar. You'd then have to transpose. Or play baritone guitar.
Last edited by Jabberwocky; 11-19-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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the great king of the surf guitar-dick dale- uses 16p, 18p, 20p. 38w, 48w, 58w...but of course thats on a 25.5 strat!
cheers
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Great info on PM's gauges,
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
BTW Jabs, love the new avatar....
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