What's up with Gibson black?

**GNAPPI** · 10-24-2015, 07:23 AM

I have a number of black guitars from Gibson(5), Gretsch (2), Fender (2), Greco (1) and Schecter (1), and the ONLY ones with a finish hazing problem from my right arm and body areas that contact the guitar are my Gibsons.

To minimize it I play my Gibbys with long sleeve shirts, or drape a hand towel over the lower bout and NEVER play them with "wife beater" type tee shirts. I polish them fairly regularly but on two models in particular (a Howard Roberts Fusion and a 335) they will readily get a finish haze if not for special my care.

WTF??? Could there some issue from a PO that caused this I began to think? Maybe... but then again my 70's Greco 3 pup LP custom looks like it left the factory last year not nearly four decades ago and I'm not constantly wiping it down like it has a bad cold! Also I'm the original owner of my ES-195 and given enough play time it will haze up too!

I've had black 50's, and 60's Gibson guitars that never hazed like this, I have to believe either something has changed in my skin or in Gibson's finish? I'm inclined to believe the latter.

So what's up with Gibson's top coat on their black guitars? Anyone else noted this on this or other Gibson finishes?

**Franz 1997** · 10-24-2015, 08:19 AM

Your Gibsons might be the only ones with a nitro finish. I have had the same experience with post-80s Gibson lacquer, most recently on a 90's 350t. This is a really great guitar, but the lacquer is still slightly sticky and feels grubby after an hour or so's playing. I have never had this with 70-'s or earlier gibsons, and I'm using the same left hand.... It's internet wisdom that modern nitro lacquers have more plasticiser in them and sometimes never set completely hard, as 50's and 60's lacquer does.

Dutchbopper has a similar 90's guitar, and I wonder if he has the same problem

Anyway, I just wipe it down and get on with it...

**vinlander** · 10-24-2015, 08:43 AM

My 1992 Les Paul Standard in Ebony color also tend to develop a sticky neck feeling as it warmup from playing. I also think it might related to the change in Nitro Gibson experimented with. I don't have any checking on that 25 years old Les Paul

**citizenk74** · 10-24-2015, 01:57 PM

My mid-60's Gibson ES-345 in cherry red does the same thing, and I deal with it in the same fashion. Even after the hottest summer gigs, a good wipe down and time and back to as new. Same for my volute-blessed 325, also in cherry. That's what favorite old cotton shirts the missus insists are too ragged to wear are for, I guess. I've gotten to where there is always cotton between me and everything but the strings, and of course they get their genie-in-a-bottle rub-a-dub as well. 'S all good. Well, pretty good. Shine on!

**Max405** · 10-24-2015, 01:58 PM

I wish I knew the answer.
Black cars, guitars anything black look so elegant to me. Maybe because they are prone to show imperfections more easily, perhaps the should be shot with a poly clear or maybe a ceramic coating of some kind..
Hang in there Gary, I've once felt your pain.
Joe D

**Greentone** · 10-25-2015, 01:32 PM

As mentioned, the Gibsons may be the only nitro finishes. The Poly finishes are MUCH more impervious to not only your arm sweat, but...well to just about everything. Pick up a late-70s GB-10 Ibanez sometime. The finish will look nearly new, even if the frets are badly worn and the pickguard has disintegrated.

Still, it used to be the case that the black finishes from Gibson held up a bit better--ebony Les Paul Customs didn't dull out like you are suggesting that your newer guitars have. My '68 ES-175 didn't dull out (it sure did get some finish crazing, though, from temperature shifts).

If you check, I think you will find that there has been a shift in the composition of clear coat chemistry in the past fifteen years. Due to the fact that states (in the USA) are beginning to ban spraying of anything but water-soluble clear coats, the companies that are making them (it's just about getting down to PPG now) are developing clear coat technology that is quite different than what was available when Gibson used to spray clear lacquer over ebony on Les Pauls and other models up in K'zoo years ago.

It could be that the newer clear coats are dulling from perspiration more easily than the older, harder clear coats. I do know that the newer clear coats do not set up _hard_ as quickly as the older lacquers did. I had a newer Fender that I got from the factory that stayed "plastic-y" for a very long time, before it set up hard. I worried for a while that it would even stick to the fuzzy liner of the case, but it didn't.

**teleman3726** · 10-25-2015, 02:45 PM

I always play my tele in a wife beater shirt. I'm told it sounds better, especially here in the South.

**GNAPPI** · 10-25-2015, 03:23 PM

I feel like Nanook of the north all bundled up to play a black Gibson. Oh well, it is what it is.

**pubylakeg** · 10-25-2015, 06:21 PM

Not saying this relates to your situation, but, medications can cause contact reactions with finishes (and upholstery).

**citizenk74** · 10-25-2015, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by pubylakeg

Not saying this relates to your situation, but, medications can cause contact reactions with finishes (and upholstery).

Could you please elaborate? I know the bulk of my experience with the 345 detailed above occurred prior to my presently medicated condition. Specific meds, or classes thereof? Thanks in advance.

**Max405** · 10-25-2015, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

I feel like Nanook of the north all bundled up to play a black Gibson. Oh well, it is what it is.

that can't be comfortable at all.
Gnappi, have you tried a good sealant on the guitar? My Black L5 survived my "wife beater" sessions without any problems. The sealant I use is Menzerna Power lock.
JD

**Max405** · 10-25-2015, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by citizenk74

Could you please elaborate? I know the bulk of my experience with the 345 detailed above occurred prior to my presently medicated condition. Specific meds, or classes thereof? Thanks in advance.

C74, if you are taking some kind of medication that has paint thinner in it, I heard that can't be good. Just kidding..

**GNAPPI** · 10-25-2015, 07:47 PM

No meds, but I'd discount that as my other black non Gibson guitars have no problem.

I'll say this though, my skin is rather salty, perhaps Gibson's finish is more prone to hazing with me? Dunno, or is it Nunno? I should change my handle to Nanook. My GF thought I was nutso putting on a long sleeved shirt and pj pants to play.

**Max405** · 10-25-2015, 08:00 PM

Gary, I found a good picture for your new avatar..

**GNAPPI** · 10-25-2015, 08:13 PM

Stop it, my sides are hurting...freaking black Gibsons

**GNAPPI** · 10-26-2015, 08:25 AM

Well since this is halloween week, I changed my avatar from my Tal Farlow head. I'm going to laugh every time I see it :-)

**vinnyv1k** · 10-26-2015, 12:36 PM

I am now the proud owner of JD's black L5. Per his expert advise I used the Menzerna on it and no haze problem at all but a black guitar will show a single fingerprint just like a shiney black car will a mile away.

**Max405** · 10-26-2015, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

I am now the proud owner of JD's black L5. Per his expert advise I used the Menzerna on it and no haze problem at all but a black guitar will show a single fingerprint just like a shiney black car will a mile away.

Thanks Vinny. I am so glad you love that Guitar. Tear it up Vinny!

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Well since this is halloween week, I changed my avatar from my Tal Farlow head. I'm going to laugh every time I see it :-)

That's a Classic GNAPPI. Love it.

**pubylakeg** · 10-26-2015, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by citizenk74

Could you please elaborate? I know the bulk of my experience with the 345 detailed above occurred prior to my presently medicated condition. Specific meds, or classes thereof? Thanks in advance.

TBH C74, I'm no expert on that at all, so I'd be hesitant to comment,but AFAIK, acne, certain blood pressure or cholesterol meds and some post chemo meds can cause contact reactions, but I would have to defer to a qualified health professional for the specifics. Something to consider. However, as described above, it seems Gibson have made significant changes to their finish formula so,...

**mrcee** · 10-26-2015, 02:12 PM

I bought a black 90s Howard Roberts Fusion new and it was my main guitar for well over 10 yrs. I've never thought about it but maybe I never played in short sleeve shirts because there were no finish problems.