Poll: Super 400 or Byrdland?

**teleman3726** · 10-23-2015, 10:30 AM

It's getting to be that time of the year again (Xmas) and I've pretty much thinned the herd.

As such, I am looking at either a S 400 or a Byrdland as a present to myself and am really tied over which to choose. I'm fairly well versed in the differences between the two, years of production, and have played both - obviously different beasts.

But what is your preference?

And if you have one of these to sell please PM me. I've seen what there is on gbase, reverb, Joe V, etc. Some look OK, some...meh.

I also note that prices (at least on reverb) are coming down quite nicely from a year ago.

Thanks. Look forward to everyone's thoughts.

**Endorphins** · 10-23-2015, 10:35 AM

I'd go for the Super 400, particularly if I can get it at the original list price.

Byrdland has that ultra short scale. I'm not too comfortable with that.

.

**Bluedawg** · 10-23-2015, 11:15 AM

I've been hankering for a S400 myself ....

But if I had the cash I would get a Byrdland ,too .... or an L5CT

I don't have the money for either at the moment

**vinnyv1k** · 10-23-2015, 11:25 AM

Really opposite ends of archtops. Smallest vs Largest. I love them both though.

**Archie** · 10-23-2015, 11:29 AM

No offence but there is no point at all in doing a poll with these two guitars.

You either want comfort and a shorter scale, or you want discomfort for greater acoustic response and a longer scale for a slightly different attack.

How you paired these two is probably the most interesting thing about it lol

Good luck making your mind up.

**wintermoon** · 10-23-2015, 11:34 AM

apples and oranges--if you're weighing these two perhaps you should try an L-5, it's sort of in the middle

**Woody Sound** · 10-23-2015, 12:29 PM

Kind of obvious. Depends on what else you own, and if it's a niche you need to fill for YOUR purpose. Nobody else knows that.

But if it's just a purchase for the experience of owning one, regardless of your needs, the S400 will bring more daily chills and thrills.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-23-2015, 12:40 PM

This one's easy for me ... I could find a use for a Byrdland but I can't even think of myself playing a Super 400. Way too big for me.

**Greentone** · 10-23-2015, 03:51 PM

They are BOTH exceptional guitars. Don't let anybody put you off, too much, about the scale on the Byrdland. In hand, the guitar plays exceptionally well--and it sounds superb.

That said, the scale on the Super 400 is the industry standard, as it were, for jazz guitar (at least pre-Johnny Smith/Benedetto).

The guitars are not apples and oranges...they are more like grapefruit and limes (I was thinking of two very different sized citrus fruit). The Super 400 is a whale of a guitar. It is like driving a dreadnought (battleship) out on the ocean. It fears nothing--with its size and capabilities it commands the oceans. The Byrdland is more of a PT Boat--twin Rolls Royce engines, solid wood deck and hull. FAST and sleek. Dangerous in a different way than the 400.

You need to try to play both and decide which way you lean because the guitars are so different. I could be happy with either, but I would sure lean towards the Super 400, given my interests and preferences.

**vinnyv1k** · 10-23-2015, 04:13 PM

Best axe I ever had in my whole life was a 1978 Super 400. Selling that one was my biggest guitar mistake I ever made. I also had a 1977 Byrdland that was a great guitar but my current 2014 Byrdland is the best Byrdland I ever have played.
Super 400 is the "King of Tone" and the Brydland has the "Fastest neck in the West".

**Frank67** · 10-23-2015, 04:15 PM

The S400 doesn't have a big acoustic response. Gibson cuts the tops thick and that diminishes acoustic volume. My 17" Heritage golden eagle is way louder than my 18" S400. The S400 I find quite challenging to handle and I fatigue easily while playing it because it is so big. The Byrdland is totally different guitar. I have a Terada made Epiphone version. It is quite comfortable but the short scale is not for everyone. Plugged in they both sound great. But given such a damped top, don't expect the bigger electric tone from the S400.

just my 0.02$

**teleman3726** · 10-23-2015, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the comments. I like the analogy of grapefruit and limes.
I'm not a small dude so the size of the 400 didn't bother me.
I chose the Byrd because I front a Ted Nugent (circa 1977) tribute band, and it seems more appropriate to play than a Danelectro.

**Jonathan0996** · 10-23-2015, 09:16 PM

My thoughts are that if you're going to spend that kind of money on a guitar you should get your hands on one and play it first. As has been pointed out, these guitars are on opposite ends of the spectrum. With guitars this unsual, I think it's especially important to play them.

You're in SC and you're gonna spend several thousand dollars on either guitar. Spend another grand and take a little road trip up to NYC. You can check out the best jazz in the world by night and scour the guitar shops by day. I'll bet you can find an example or two of each of them. And you might run into Peter Bernstein at Smalls. You can always ask him what he thinks.

**teleman3726** · 10-23-2015, 09:45 PM

Thanks. I'm in NYC several times a month for work and I check out the clubs when I can.
So your suggestion is a good one.
I've played both but each is a little different.
Although a pain in the ass, trial periods are therefore important.
I also like the time (3 days) to spend with a guitar.
I was once in Rudy's and the sales guy (we turned out to be friends) almost convinced me to walk out with an Eastman because it looked 'cool' on me.

**Jonathan0996** · 10-23-2015, 10:04 PM

Yeah, if you can get three days with the guitar that would be ideal, but you could tell a lot by playing it for an hour in a guitar shop. Plus, the salesman can let you know how cool it looks on you.

**Greentone** · 10-24-2015, 06:22 PM

Well, if you front a Nuge tribute band...it HAS to be a Byrdland.

**teleman3726** · 10-24-2015, 06:30 PM

Thanks, Green.
The clip says it all. (Love Lou in this one.)

**Stringswinger** · 10-25-2015, 03:29 PM

I own a Super 400. It is a fine guitar unless you are small bodied or have small hands. I have played Byrdlands. They are fine guitars as well, and I like short scale guitars. That said, the Byrdland scale is so short that even though it is a 2 pickup guitar, it almost feels to me like playing a 3 pickup Les Paul. There is very little room between the pickups, so for the most part, one has to pick right over a pickup. That feature makes the Byrdland a deal killer for me.

25.5 is the standard scale length from the classical world. Gibson, Epiphone, Guild and Martin all used it though Gibson also has a short scale (24.75) and Martin has a short scale as well.

John D'Angelico used a 25 inch scale that Johnny Smith favored and is now used by Bob Benedetto and his followers.

Selmer guitars have a 26 3/8 scale.

The Byrdland is 23.5. People with big hands might find it cramped.

How Nugent played a Byrdland at 70's Rock concert volumes without massive feedback remains a mystery to me. He was/is a decent enough rock player. He gets trashed among the left wing musical community for his pro-gun views (which I strongly agree with), but should be recognized for his talent and success. Putting politics in front of objective musical appreciation is a fools game at best.

Larry Coryell played his Super 400 at rock concert volumes in the 70's as well. So if you figure out how to tame the feedback, you can use either one for jazz and rock.

**wintermoon** · 10-25-2015, 03:44 PM

"John D'Angelico used a 25 inch scale that Johnny Smith favored and is now used by Bob Benedetto and his followers."

actually his guitars were all over the place. 24 1/2, 24 3/4, 25, 25 1/4, 25 1/2.
same w/Stromberg.

there was short time in the mid/late 30s that Gibson was experimenting w/26" scale, I've seen a few L-5s and Super 400s from this period w/26" scales.

**Stringswinger** · 10-25-2015, 03:47 PM

Both of my DA's have a 25 inch scale as did Johnny Smith's DA. I think 25 was his standard, but he would do whatever the customer requested (as did Elmer Stromberg), hence the many variations....