Western swing on the Epiphone Broadway Elitist

**roegtr** · 10-16-2015, 03:31 PM

Does it sound too electric, or does it pass as a western swing sound on this live recording:

**Klatu** · 10-16-2015, 03:43 PM

I'm no expert on Western Swing, but it sounds mighty good to me.

**neatomic** · 10-16-2015, 04:00 PM

nice pickin..tho being a stickler, i wouldn't really consider hank garland as western swing...he's much more nashville..ex-on his album that he cut with gary burton- jazz winds from a new direction- he has a decidely "processed" (for the time) tone...the same slapback/reverb that grady martin or chet atkins had...

having said that, you sounded real fine...tho the leslie type effect towards end is historically incorrect for hank or western swing...

keep pickin

cheers

**wintermoon** · 10-16-2015, 04:02 PM

nice, haven't heard that one before.
but an organ in Western swing?

;^)

**roegtr** · 10-16-2015, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

nice, haven't heard that one before.
but an organ in Western swing?

;^)

Yah organ isn´t your common western swing instrument... But it might work. Would it be frowned upon in a band called "Best Western Swing" (this is a project I´m currently working on)?

**roegtr** · 10-16-2015, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

nice pickin..tho being a stickler, i wouldn't really consider hank garland as western swing...he's much more nashville..ex-on his album that he cut with gary burton- jazz winds from a new direction- he has a decidely "processed" (for the time) tone...the same slapback/reverb that grady martin or chet atkins had...

having said that, you sounded real fine...tho the leslie type effect towards end is historically incorrect for hank or western swing...

keep pickin

cheers

I do agree, although the early Hank stuff is definitely western swing like. But the genre played out before his time. Merle Travis once said that western swing guys were a bunch of extra talented country boys playing their hearts out. Would it be correct to say that the Western Swing genre is a form of jazz - country crossover?

**neatomic** · 10-16-2015, 04:22 PM

have'm trade the nord for an accordian! or 2!

hah

Western swing on the Epiphone Broadway Elitist-tumblr_inline_npckj2zxgc1qen1pn_500-jpg

cheers

ps- you might find this recent thread interesting..check it out

Western Swing

**ruger9** · 10-16-2015, 04:46 PM

Mighty fine picking!!!!

I have an Epi Broadway (it's not an Elitist, but it's Peerless-made), and my only comment would be... humbuckers suck for this style LOL. They sound too modern and "jazzy", imo. Throw a set of Bare Knuckle Manhattans in that box an do the two-step!

(low wind P90s, and yes, they come in gold)

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai.../manhattan.jpg

**roegtr** · 10-16-2015, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Mighty fine picking!!!!

I have an Epi Broadway (it's not an Elitist, but it's Peerless-made), and my only comment would be... humbuckers suck for this style LOL. They sound too modern and "jazzy", imo. Throw a set of Bare Knuckle Manhattans in that box an do the two-step!

(low wind P90s, and yes, they come in gold)

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai.../manhattan.jpg

I did try the Lollar p90s in the Epi. I liked them but for the Epi I prefer them buckers... Maybe I should just get a tele and be done with it :-/

**neatomic** · 10-16-2015, 04:55 PM

hey r9!...then chuck the 12ax7 amp for an an octal and you're good to go!! haha

Western swing on the Epiphone Broadway Elitist-img_2371-jpg

cheers

**ruger9** · 10-16-2015, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by roegtr

I did try the Lollar p90s in the Epi. I liked them but for the Epi I prefer them buckers... Maybe I should just get a tele and be done with it :-/

Well, you can certainly play that western swing/hillbilly jazz style on a tele!!! Just ask Ray Benson, Jimmy Bryant, Jim Campilongo, the list goes on.... (and of course Eldon Shambling eventually used a damn strat, but them's fightin' words! LOL)

**roegtr** · 10-16-2015, 05:14 PM

I´ll bring out my Gibson es390 next time. It does have p90 pickups. However, I need something other than a Roland cube60 for an amp.

**Greentone** · 10-16-2015, 10:52 PM

roegtr,

Nice job. I wouldn't worry too much about organ in a Western Swing band. If Bill Monroe could have accordion in his bluegrass band (he did), and if Doc Watson could start out using a Les Paul guitar (he did), then I'd say that you can certainly vary the instrumentation in a Western Swing band, too, with taste and discretion.

The Broadway Elitist sounds great in the application you are using it in. Great guitar, too, by the way.

**ruger9** · 10-17-2015, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

roegtr,

Nice job. I wouldn't worry too much about organ in a Western Swing band. If Bill Monroe could have accordion in his bluegrass band (he did), and if Doc Watson could start out using a Les Paul guitar (he did), then I'd say that you can certainly vary the instrumentation in a Western Swing band, too, with taste and discretion.

The Broadway Elitist sounds great in the application you are using it in. Great guitar, too, by the way.

I was going to come back on here and type something similar- heck, western swing ITSELF was a "bastardization" of "real swing"... fiddles? Banjos? Steel guitars? LOL

There are no rules. If there were, western swing would never have been invented!

**John A.** · 10-17-2015, 09:53 AM

The tone is fine. The organ is fine. But the hat? That's just wrong.

John

**neatomic** · 10-17-2015, 10:54 AM

except that the op was about authenticity in western swing!......he's recreating not inventing!

you can't make cherry pie with apples..hah

cheers

ps- the caps ala deke dickerson..haha

Western swing on the Epiphone Broadway Elitist-l_e2c3f2926b31674efb23b37786732595-jpg

Western swing on the Epiphone Broadway Elitist-l_e2c3f2926b31674efb23b37786732595-jpg

**Greentone** · 10-17-2015, 11:07 AM

Authenticity would require that we all go down to the drugstore and buy our Black Diamond strings out of the clear pickle jar, the way we used to. That's what everyone used.

**feral guitar** · 10-17-2015, 11:09 AM

not putting down the vintage-correct way of playing western swing, but consider that the guys at the time used what was available, and that we could do that now and, in that way, be even more correct!

**neatomic** · 10-17-2015, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Authenticity would require that we all go down to the drugstore and buy our Black Diamond strings out of the clear pickle jar, the way we used to. That's what everyone used.

funny that was going to be my next suggestion!! haha

find it odd, that on this most traditional of forums.,.where ti pure nickels rule..and every nuance of yesterdays archtops are broken down in detail..that a post about sounding authentic in western swing would catch such a laissez faire attitude

it about recreating not creating..details are important

can't imagine a how do i sound like charlie christian thread would be met with- use anything you want...he was just usin what he had too..kramer with cobalt strings ok?

op asked about late 40-early 50's western swing sound..there are parameters

cheers

**neatomic** · 10-17-2015, 01:12 PM

btw...this is the actual hank garland version..with the "nashville" production sound i mentioned

cheers

**roegtr** · 10-17-2015, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

The tone is fine. The organ is fine. But the hat? That's just wrong.

John

But I love my hat

**roegtr** · 10-17-2015, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

btw...this is the actual hank garland version..with the "nashville" production sound i mentioned

cheers

I love Hank´s sound in this video! Any idea what gear he used for this track?

**neatomic** · 10-17-2015, 05:01 PM

the amps (hank) mostly used at bradleys were a standel and a fender tweed pro...both had alnico 15" speakers!..

hank was a gibson guy..the byrdland was out by the time of that session (1957)...and he loved guitars with the charlie christian pup..in fact his prototype byrdland had a cc pup...he also had a cc es150 and a gibson L-5c with cc pup

early on he liked thinlines and had stromberg make him up one.. thats why his byrdland was thinned down by design...he also later used a gibson 345 heavily for studio work

i'd imagine he was using gibson mona steel strings..which are monel

check the end of this patsy cline vid.. also from 1957!...owen bradley on piano, grady martin on bigsby doubleneck and hank on his byrdland...

cheers

**roegtr** · 10-18-2015, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

the amps (hank) mostly used at bradleys were a standel and a fender tweed pro...both had alnico 15" speakers!..

hank was a gibson guy..the byrdland was out by the time of that session (1957)...and he loved guitars with the charlie christian pup..in fact his prototype byrdland had a cc pup...he also had a cc es150 and a gibson L-5c with cc pup

early on he liked thinlines and had stromberg make him up one.. thats why his byrdland was thinned down by design...he also later used a gibson 345 heavily for studio work

i'd imagine he was using gibson mona steel strings..which are monel

check the end of this patsy cline vid.. also from 1957!...owen bradley on piano, grady martin on bigsby doubleneck and hank on his byrdland...

cheers

Thanks! I really appreciate your insight

What ever happened to Standel amps? Didn´t Wes also play those?

**neatomic** · 10-18-2015, 02:49 PM

standel amps were created by bob crooks.. one of the geniuses of 50's west coast guitar and amp building along with leo fender and paul bigsby...standels were loud (for the time) and stayed clean..very hi-fi.. 15" speaker...pedal steelers loved them as did a lot of country based guitarists like hank g, chet atkins, grady martin, joe maphis etc etc

relatively few were made and are now very $$$ highly collectible...

crooks was also one of the first to get into solid state amp designs, and thats where wes comes in..he used a solid state standel artist

standel eventually folded and years later the amps are being produced again via requisite audio..who stay true to the original designs and intent

good stuff--

check out hanks cowhide covered standel amp!

Standel Photo Album

cheers