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not disclosed in the original ad and now I have to ship back to canada assuming he'll take it back. It also appears that some of the inlays were replaced with plastic, imitation abalone. Also has a tailrise and buzzes badly above the 12th fret. It was supposedly recently pro-refretted and I specifically asked about this....Sigh...
This is my last time buying anything out of the country. Nothing but headaches.Last edited by jzucker; 10-09-2015 at 09:14 PM.
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10-09-2015 06:28 PM
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Did he not know what he was selling you? All that stuff is kind of obvious. Either the seller was not a guitar guy or he blatantly ripped you off. Not cool Jack. unless it was a $1200-1500 175, he should do the right thing and take it back. Was the bridge at least glued in the right spot?
Originally Posted by jzucker
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he was 79 years old so i'm guessing he just didn't realize it had all these issues. The bridge is glued too close on the bass side and too far back on the treble side so unfortunately, the intonation is off. And it buzzes pretty badly and was advertised as having been pro refretted and playing perfectly. The action was about 1/32 at the 12th fret so obviously, he wasn't playing it or if he was, only in first position or something. It was a late '60s 175 for $3k so not a bargain. It does sound good but with all the issues, I couldn't justify paying more than $2100 for it and I doubt he'll agree to refund that kind of difference. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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it'd be easier on both sides to come to some sort of $$$ agreement.....figure how much it would cost to get it right, and see if he'll refund...
that bridge glue could probably be undone with a hair dryer
luck
cheers
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If he understands what needs to be done to repair it and Is remorseful about misleading you, then perhaps he might be open to making it right. Let's face it, he won't be able to sell it with all those issues if he discloses them. Originally Posted by jzucker
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it appears to be glued with polyurethane glue which doesn't loosen with heat and that's not going to effect the plastic inlays. I'm a bit suspicious that the fingerboard is not original. Originally Posted by neatomic
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That sucks big time, I would also think twice about buying abroad after these last experiences you had.
Regarding the inlays I thought only the high end Gibson like LP Custom, Supreme, L5, Super 400 ... had real MOP and most of the others had some Pearloid or celluloid notoriously called as "Mother of Toilet Seats".
Based on Gibson website they are also used on 5K 1959 RI ES 175, not that it changes the tone but still.
Not even sure what is on the Tal in fact, not that it would really matter though.
Maybe on that specific case some have been replaced by really cheap looking ones though, not as aged as the rest.
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maybe you're right but the ones in this guitar have a blueish tint to them like they are imitation abalone instead of MOP. They look a like cheap versions of the GB10 inlays. Anyway, it's too bad. The guitar sounds great but it also has a tailrise and needs to be planed flat above the 12th fret. Whoever refretted it should have taken care of that issue. Originally Posted by vinlander
So, anyway too many things wrong with it.
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Deleted, redundant.
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Sorry to read about your troubles, JZ. Stuff of a buyer's nightmare. Hope you paid by a means that allows you to get a refund or a resolution in your favour.
My initial reaction would be outrage too. If you were to take a step back and evaluate it, I don't know how much it would cost to reset the neck, re-level and re-fret the fretboard, replace the inlays and fix that stuck-on bridge, re-lacquer the spot under it. You say it sounds great as it is. I can imagine that it might be worth fixing up to make the old gal playable for the next few decades.
There's good karma in there for yer.
Talk it out with the seller. It would do him no good to get it back as he would have the whole hassle of finding a new buyer, paying shipping both ways, and it won't be nice to see this happen to another buyer when it goes back on the market. So, he might be open to negotiation. Of course, if he is going to be a pain about it then getting a refund and shipping it back on his coin is the resolution I would want.
As it stands, it is a "player's" guitar with no "collector's" value. Nothing wrong with that except for its market value so price it accordingly as a player's guitar and get that "reduction in market value" back from the seller. How much do you reckon it is worth if you had known about its issues?
Hope it all works out well for both parties.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 10-10-2015 at 01:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Ouch, sounds like a bit of a nightmare. Always tickles me that people know the plus points when selling there guitar, like pro refret etc, but not the bad stuff. I'm sure some of the time its simply a person has been ripped off by a tech but other times, you do get a bit cynical.
I got a Lee Ritenour Ibanez coming in, fingers crossed.
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i think the vast majority of people just don't know what they have and aren't interested in the details. Those are the ones who seem to be offended when you point out the differences between the answers they gave and what you actually see when you receive it. I make a point of asking all the questions beforehand about things I would be checking for but most people just think it's an old guitar and an old guitar is worth "this much"...
Last edited by jzucker; 10-10-2015 at 09:34 AM.
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So true that is why I guess it is safer to deal with shop offering returns after trial or to deal with a reputable private person like we can find on that forum, I did and was not disappointed ! Originally Posted by jzucker
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Jack, I hope you can accept this comment as the compliment that it is; You sound fantastic on every guitar/clip I've heard you play. I really think you are sometimes searching for something you already posses.
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whiskey, we all agree. Jack is just trying to have fun, that's all. It just seems that obstacles occasionally get in his way. The cool thing is he shares his experiences with us a we all learn from them. Originally Posted by whiskey02
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i see what you are saying Jack. In 79 years this gentleman has seen a lot of fluctuation in values. And he may be relying on the funds to pay his bills. However you cover your bases by asking very direct questions about very important things. You deserve accurate and truthful answers. If you don't get them then you deserve your money back. And that is a fact. Originally Posted by jzucker
JD
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Oh man! I hate to hear that, Jack.
I think your assessment is right. Your best bet is going to be to try to get the gentleman to take the guitar back and refund your money. You'll end up having close to $4,000 in this guitar trying to make it right. Good luck with the undoing of the transaction. Hope it works out for you.
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Taking it to the shop today to get a written estimate of what work needs to be done to make it live up to the original billing. Unfortunately, what some folks don't understand is that part of the value of an old guitar is it's residual value and with the urethane glue, it may need some refinish work or if not, a corresponding reduction in price based on the reduction in the market value. Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
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Who says I'm searching for something I don't already have? I love guitars. They are my life's passion. Originally Posted by whiskey02
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True, Joe. About 10 years back when rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz was a lively place, Jack would post many of these reports to the newsgroup. Often they had video link as he does now. After seeing him flip through about his 30th guitar in a year I got a busted his chops about it a little bit. He rightfully give me a little pushback on it. As I got to thinking about it, I realized that Jack was really providing quite a service by testing all these guitars, posting his experiences and also posting videos so people could hear what they sound like. I've come to appreciate Jack's experiences with this quite a bit although it does seem like he ends up going through a lot of grief due to doing most of his purchases via the Internet and shipping. Of course few of us live in locations where we have ready access to a wide variety of jazz guitars to examine before purchasing; we end up buying sight unseen and that is a recipe for potential problems. What one person thinks it is no big deal another person thinks is unacceptable. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
Responding to the comment about Jack searching for what he already has: I think that sums up much of the human condition.Last edited by Cunamara; 10-10-2015 at 12:56 PM.
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My experience is that if you do enough EBay/internet guitar purchases, eventually you will take it in the shorts on a guitar deal, either with a bad seller or a screwup with the shipper. Paypal will leave you in the cold, regardless of their guarantees and usually the amount of money lost will leave you in the small claims arena where you will mostly not find complete justice (Vinny was more fortunate than most in his case).
That said, occasionally good deals can be had and if one accepts the occasional bad deal in balance with a multitude of good deals, it can all be rationalized. (Of course, I rationalize owning 20 guitars, so everything I write must be taken with a grain of salt).
Jack, Good luck on this one. It sounds like $1,000 will make it right. IMO, if you can get the seller to split that with you, you will be OK.
Cheers,
Marc
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The only guitars I would buy sight unseen would be from you guys on this sight. Their is a whole lot of honesty and expertise here that you just won't find anywhere else. Very sorry Jack !!!
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Guilty Originally Posted by jzucker
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Just got back from the shop. I think i'll pass on getting it fixed. Here's the repairman's evaluation.
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