Hofner John Stowel Verythin

[JazzMuzak]

I'm strongly considering buying a hofner Verythin John Stowel model and am wondering if anybody here can give me some input on them?

I I was told that they sound very acoustic and like an archtop, but are more comfortable to play.

Since its maple, spruce, and ebony I expect it to be bright, but how bright...? Can it get dark? My current semi has a midscooped sound that I'm not the biggest fan of.

People who own or have tried one how does it compare with a 335?

On on a different note and very different guitar....if anybody knows where one of the jimmy Bruno prototypes might be for sale I'd be interested...

[Cunamara]

Most of the examples I have heard played with this guitar can get very dark- John Stowell often does this. Here's a clip of the great Jimmy Wyble playing one, which also gives you an idea about why it's called the "Verythin."

"Hey whadja do today?" "Went out for lunch at the restaurant. Some old guy was playing guitar over in the corner. I talked on my cell phone."

Sheesh. More Jimmy:

Young fella getting a nice soft tone:

[GuyBoden]

I've had a Hofner JS model for about 10 years, I was lucky enough to get the violin finish model, it has a very good clear sound and a great slightly chunky neck, but obviously it doesn't sound like a full hollow body archtop. They can be slightly neck heavy, which will be more noticeable if your style of holding the guitar is neck up rather than a more horizontal neck style like the Barney Kessel. You can add lead weight to the tailpiece to balance the guitar, the tailpiece is metal underneath the ebony.

[Klatu]

I've had a Hofner JS model for about 10 years, I was lucky enough to get the violin finish model, it has a very good clear sound and a great slightly chunky neck, but obviously it doesn't sound like a full hollow body archtop. They can be slightly neck heavy, which will be more noticeable if your style of holding the guitar is neck up rather than a more horizontal neck style like the Barney Kessel. You can add lead weight to the tailpiece to balance the guitar, the tailpiece is metal underneath the ebony.

I agree that the guitars have a reputation as being slightly neck heavy, but I wanted to add that individual examples vary a bit in their balance. There have been some who feel that it was so neck heavy as to make it uncomfortable, and therefore unplayable, but that is not the case in my situation. When I play the guitar using a slick strap (not a suede strap that grips one's clothing), the guitar doesn't do a nosedive; rather, it balances on my traps. My ideal balancing point is the shoulder scapula, so while my Verythin's balance isn't ideal, it is just fine for my needs.

As for the sound, I consider it to be one of the guitars in my collection that I'm unlikely to ever get rid of since its neck and playability surpass most other instruments, and it produces tones that other guitars are incapable of.

Interesting features that allow this guitar to stand out from the pack is its long 25 1/2" scale length, and single coil / humbucker pickup configuration. Most guitars I've played with splittable humbuckers produce single coil sounds that aren't quite good enough to use instead of the humbucker; that is not the case with the Verythin. The single coil sound that you can get with the Hofner is unique in that it sounds like an out of phase, in-between strat sound that really works in a jazz and pop context.

[jzucker]

if you play standing, the verythin spruce is one of the worst neck-heavy examples ever made. HORRIBLE balance. Neck dives so badly that IMO, it's impossible to play standing. If you sit and play, it's not an issue.

[Klatu]

if you play standing, the verythin spruce is one of the worst neck-heavy examples ever made. HORRIBLE balance. Neck dives so badly that IMO, it's impossible to play standing. If you sit and play, it's not an issue.

I remember having this discussion with you a while back. I posted a photo of my with my Verythin Classic hanging at an ideal playing angle in order to show that either your instrument was particularly disastrous, or mine was exceptionally balanced.

". . . one of the worst neck-heavy examples ever made" is such a strong statement, and is so completely off base in my experience.

[Chimera1to1]

JazzMuzak,

I've played a JS for a couple of hours back to back against other guitars and I liked it a lot. I did however feel that the Eastman T146 had a stronger acoustic voice which carries over the pickup well. I really like mine. It's very comfortable to play and sounds much more like a full sized archtop than the JS

[goldenwave77]

[QUOTE=Klatu;568103]I agree that the guitars have a reputation as being slightly neck heavy, but I wanted to add that individual examples vary a bit in their balance. There have been some who feel that it was so neck heavy as to make it uncomfortable, and therefore unplayable, but that is not the case in my situation.

I never use the strap buttons located on the neck join of a guitar. Get a regular strap, wind the nylon string around the headstock and the tuners with a secure knot....the guitar balances better...its not going anywhere. Every guitar I play is set up to play with a consistent height, and it never changes...so one less thing to worry about...posture wise...I tend to like them "worn on the high side", a la Joe Pass or Joe Diorio, kind of classical like but with the strap to ensure consistency.

Having the guitar held by the strap at one end near the neck join is like having a seesaw balancing on a pivot point with part of the wt. (the neck and headstock) on the outside of the fulcrum. Placing the fulcrum (the strap connection) coincident with the headstock, makes this inherently more stable...like having a wider wheelbase on a car, instead of trying to balance on roller skate wheels.

Someone once said they were worried about "tension" on the neck doing this....with a standard neck having what 100 or 125 lbs. of tension with the 6 strings, I doubt displacing forward 3 llbs, or whatever 1/2 the wt. of what a guitar is, is much to worry about.

[GuyBoden]

I remember having this discussion with you a while back. I posted a photo of my with my Verythin Classic hanging at an ideal playing angle in order to show that either your instrument was particularly disastrous, or mine was exceptionally balanced.

". . . one of the worst neck-heavy examples ever made" is such a strong statement, and is so completely off base in my experience.

Yes, the Classic has more weigh in the body, because of it's two pickups and heavier tailpiece. Also, the JS has a chunkier neck than the Classic model.

Like I said, it's an easy fix, just put some lead sheet underneath Hofner JS tailpiece, this balanced the guitar.

[bmw2002]

On on a different note and very different guitar....if anybody knows where one of the jimmy Bruno prototypes might be for sale I'd be interested...

As to the second part of your question, are you referring to the no-longer-made Sadowsky Jimmy Bruno, or another maker when you say "Jimmy Bruno prototype"?

[Klatu]

I seem to recall Hofner making Jimmy Bruno prototype instruments before he signed with Sadowsky.

[GuyBoden]

I seem to recall Hofner making Jimmy Bruno prototype instruments before he signed with Sadowsky.

Yes, I think you're correct, I seem to remember them too.

[Hammertone]

Just a few helpful facts:

- the scale length of the Verythin JS, Verythin Classic, Verythin Standard, Jazzica, Vice-President, New President, Thin President and Chancellor is @25 1/4", not 25 1/2."

- the Hofner mini-humbucker pickup used on these guitars was offered on the Verythin Classic with a "Clear Contour" feature - this is not a coil split or a coil tap, but a wiring design that makes the pickup sound a bit more single coil-like while still being humbucking.

- Hofner worked with Jimmy Bruno from 2002-2004 on the development of a signature guitar, and several instruments were made prior to Jimmy deciding to work with Roger Sadowsky instead. Hofner built two prototpe guitars for Jimmy in 2003, one of which he played extensively. The intention was to release 50 instruments, and Hofner subsequently built six instruments with related specifications:
E07201 - "Thin President Vintage J.B." 4/50
E07202 - probably 5/50
E07203 - "Thin President Vintage J.B." 6/50
E07204 - "Thin President Vintage" 1/50
E07205 - "Thin President J.B." 2/50
E07206 - "Thin President Vintage" 3/50

These six labelled instruments were mostly sold through Elderly and were listed on their website.
I had both of the prototypes at one time - one with a floating mini-humbucking pickup, one with a full-sized, set-in pickup. Jimmy preferred the set-in humbucker version - it was played extensively, and the other was not. Half of the labelled instruments had set-in full-sized humbuckers, and the other half had floating mini-humbuckers. Specifications were simple - the instruments were essentially thinline versions of the Hofner New President, with
- @2 1/2" deep rims, @15 7/8" wide
- carved spruce top, laminated anigree rims and back plate
- one piece maple neck, ebony fingerboard
- 22 frets
- violin finish
- top-mounted volume and tone controls
- ebony and gold hardware.

There's a bit more to the story - two additional guitars were made with:
- @2 1/2" deep rims, @15 7/8" wide
- laminated spruce top, laminated anigree rims and back plate
- Spruce block running the entire length of the body
- one piece maple neck, ebony fingerboard
- 22 frets
- violin finish
- top-mounted volume and tone controls
- ebony and gold hardware.

Jimmy never even saw these. They were subsequently reconfigured a bit and became the basis for the current Thin President.

[mr. beaumont]

It's not out of the realm of possibilty that with an extra pickup and bigger tailpiece that the classic could weigh a pound or more greater in the body, which can be a big difference.

My verythin standard balances nicely on a strap, but it's also about 7 lbs, and semi hollow--i believe the Stowell's were completely hollow?

[GuyBoden]

I stand by my statements and I know 2 other former endorsers (aside from me) who couldn't even play the Verythin because of the balance issue).

For clarification purposes concerning this matter, I've got to agree with Jack about the Hofner John Stowell model being neck heavy, especially while standing and further, even with the neck up in a sitting position. That's why my Hofner John Stowell's tailpiece has been weighted with a removable thin sheet of lead.

The neck is chunkier than the Classic model, which obviously adds to the problem.

[jzucker]

i also agree that the eastman semis sound better. The El Rey, T146, T386 and T186 all sound better to my ear. Part of the problem - and i've written about this before - is the poor design of the mini humbucker hofner uses. It's depth is very thin and when I sent mine to Kent Armstrong to rewind, he told me that because of the depth, there was very little he could do to give it more fatness. He begged Hofner to spec a thicker pickup so he could put bigger magnets and more windings on it but they are very stubborn. When I was an endorser, I mentioned this as well as the 24 fret issue but they like to do things their way.

[GuyBoden]

i also agree that the eastman semis sound better. The El Rey, T146, T386 and T186 all sound better to my ear. Part of the problem - and i've written about this before - is the poor design of the mini humbucker hofner uses. It's depth is very thin and when I sent mine to Kent Armstrong to rewind, he told me that because of the depth, there was very little he could do to give it more fatness. He begged Hofner to spec a thicker pickup so he could put bigger magnets and more windings on it but they are very stubborn. When I was an endorser, I mentioned this as well as the 24 fret issue but they like to do things their way.

I must have missed this, but what's the issue with 24 frets?

Surely, 24 is not too many for you Jack.

[Klatu]

I stand by my statements and I know 2 other former endorsers (aside from me) who couldn't even play the Verythin because of the balance issue).

You may stand behind your statement, but I hope you recognize that my photo doesn't lie. The strap I chose when I took the photo was smooth, so the balance wasn't helped by grippy leather adhering to my clothing.

[Hammertone]

…..My verythin standard balances nicely on a strap, but it's also about 7 lbs, and semi hollow--i believe the Stowell's were completely hollow?

The body of the Verythin JS Model is identical to the body of the Verythin Classic made from 2000 - @2004. It has a spruce block carved to fit between a laminated spruce top and a laminated anigree back plate.

[JazzMuzak]

Wow! You guys have given me a lot to think about....I'm very interested, but as a player that plays mostly standing in apprehensive. I guess I could add lead sheets, but how much heavier do they make the guitar?

what Jack said about the pickup is also a concern, but I do like the sound samples I heard from YouTube.

Im hoping to get a darker Adam Rogers or Lage Lund type sound, but maybe with a bit more of an acoustic quality.

[Hammertone]

Prevent Neck-Heavy Guitar Headstock Diving | Guitarless

[jzucker]

Wow! You guys have given me a lot to think about....I'm very interested, but as a player that plays mostly standing in apprehensive. I guess I could add lead sheets, but how much heavier do they make the guitar?

what Jack said about the pickup is also a concern, but I do like the sound samples I heard from YouTube.

Im hoping to get a darker Adam Rogers or Lage Lund type sound, but maybe with a bit more of an acoustic quality.

i don't think you'll get adam rogers out of that bright/thin pickup. I dumped mine long ago. I get a much better sound out of my T386 and it's cheap. You can find them for $600. It's light and well balanced. The El Rey sounds to me like what I was expecting the Hofner to sound like. They are also neck heavy but not anywhere near as bad as the hofner and they use a standard humbucker. I think the el rey is the best sounding guitar in their lineup for jazz

[JazzMuzak]

i also agree that the eastman semis sound better. The El Rey, T146, T386 and T186 all sound better to my ear. Part of the problem - and i've written about this before - is the poor design of the mini humbucker hofner uses. It's depth is very thin and when I sent mine to Kent Armstrong to rewind, he told me that because of the depth, there was very little he could do to give it more fatness. He begged Hofner to spec a thicker pickup so he could put bigger magnets and more windings on it but they are very stubborn. When I was an endorser, I mentioned this as well as the 24 fret issue but they like to do things their way.

i don't think you'll get adam rogers out of that bright/thin pickup. I dumped mine long ago. I get a much better sound out of my T386 and it's cheap. You can find them for $600. It's light and well balanced. The El Rey sounds to me like what I was expecting the Hofner to sound like. They are also neck heavy but not anywhere near as bad as the hofner and they use a standard humbucker. I think the el rey is the best sounding guitar in their lineup for jazz

Jack it isn't easy for me to see how the pickup is mourned exactly is it via bars to the neck? Why couldn't one just get a larger floating pickup mounted to the guitar? Do you think the JS verythin might do the trick if I changed the pickup?

I'll consider the Eastman. I've had one in the past that I wasn't too fond of, but it was a pretty different model from what we're discussing here.

[jorgemg1984]

JazzMusal what's your budget? Adam and Lage have different sounds and use different guitars. They both can sound dark with bright guitars (tele and sadowosky jim hall respectively).

[jzucker]

adam uses a 335 most of the time.