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Hi guys! I have a question;
Is it normal that the silver plating goes away on the tailpiece? It seems "tarnished".
The guitar is new (just 1 year of playing).
Thanks!
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09-13-2015 07:51 AM
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Looks, to me, like a guitar that has been given too much tender loving care. I have seen plating wear off and lift off. I have also seen it chemically react to its environment. The biggest culprits are:
(1) chemical decomposition of the acetate-based pickguard when the instrument is stored in the case. This destroys the plating on the pickups and the tailpiece, and also destroys the nitrocellulose finish on the guitar's top.
(2) excessive cleaning with abrasive guitar polishes (or non-guitar polishes), pads, and rags. We get a great guitar (like a L5) and want to baby it. Rubbing it down too much will keep the guitar looking shiny, but the plating on pickups, gears, and tailpieces is pretty thin...it will come off with repeated rub downs. Take it easy.
While the photo above _could_ be the result of a defect in manufacturing...or even the result of dissimilar metals reacting in the presence of an acid (is your perspiration particular acidic?), I suspect that the guitar has been wiped down a lot. Maybe not, though, because I'd expect the gold plating to wear through sooner than the silver plating--more expensive and, hence, thinner.
[Upon second look: it looks more like defective plating. I'd bet you haven't wiped the guitar down too much. As I understand it, the center for the plating industry in the US used to be Baltimore, MD. I'd bet that Baltimore plates nothing, these days...residue isn't allowed into the Chesapeake Bay. Consequently, who knows where Gibson gets its tailpieces plated anymore?]Last edited by Greentone; 09-13-2015 at 09:50 AM.
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It odd that its wearing from the sides instead of the middle where you would think it would get more contact with cloths, polish etc. Bob
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The relic-king...it has begun.
I was going to be a smartass and say, that is why I don't buy an L-5 new. I was going to be a smartass and say, it's typical Gibson Quality. I was going to be a smartass and say, do you play your guitar or gawk at it?
But I won't be a smartass except to say that in a few more months, the plating is going to drop all off anyway and you will have nothing to worry about.
Doctor, doctor, there is something growing on me penis.
Rub this cream on and see me in a month.
Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. A month goes by.
Doctor, doctor, I rubbed the cream on me penis and me penis is not getting any better.
Hmm. Hmmmmmmmm. Rub on this here new cream and see me in a month.
What's going to happen in a month, doctor? Tell me now. I have a right to know.
Don't worry, son. In another 30 days, it's going to fall right off and you won't feel a thing.
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I posted a similar question on this forum, quite some time ago, but regarding nickel plate on new Gibsons. I did receive many very helpful and informative replies. From looking at pics of other instruments for sale, of a similar age, I do now realise that the condition is not unique to my own instruments.
What does strike me as odd, in regards to my own question, is that even though the tuning machines (Grovers on one, Klusons on another) would not have been plated at the same factories as the tailpiece or bridge, the plating did seem to deteriorate just as rapidly, and with as little use.
BTW, I've never used polish on any nickel hardware, and only give a brief wipe with a cloth after a playing session.
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Andrea, I'd like to show you the tarnished tailpieces of my Gibson archtops.
The plating is so thin it falls off sooner or later but it falls off. Or vanishes into thin air. I don't know but it seems to just lose itself to the environment.
Just accept it and enjoy the process. Or buy a used tarnished L-5 tailpiece off ebay and mount that one on instead. Keep the shiny L-5 tailpiece bagged up and sealed from the environment. I don't know if Gibson warranties the plating of the tailpiece but I suspect the answer is a big fat NO!
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Silver tarnishes with exposure to oxygen - perhaps the silver portion was lacquered to prevent tarnishing, and the edges as shown in the photo are where the lacquer is coming off?
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I'm far from a Gibson basher I own quite a few as well as other brands but I have a problem seeing these issues on an American product with premium prices when none of my foreign made guitars show problems like this. From peeling plating to aging lacquer defects Gibson has problems that most seem to ignore.
I don't mind metal patina changes but I prefer to not have peeling / evaporating plating and finish problems. That said If the below pic of my Tal Farlow (Gibson said this is "NORMAL") showing lacquer lifting were in a sticky along with other "NORMAL" defects to see if or when Gibson saw a strain on their bottom line maybe they would fix these issues they now seem to be plagued with.
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The tuners on the Tal Farlow are probably from Schaller, made in Germany. Schaller used to supply the lion's share of Gibson's tuners, bridges and stop tailpieces.
Current Gibson tuners, bridges and stop tailpieces are now supplied by Ping, made in China.
Gibson cases have been supplied mostly by Boblen in Montreal for many years, as well as a few other suppliers. the provenance of older cases from companies like Geib, Harptone and others is well-documented.
My own experience with wear or corrosion on the metal components of Gibson products (tuners, pickup covers, bridges, tailpieces, strap buttons) is that it is almost entirely a function of the air quality that surrounds the instruments (in and out of their cases), as well as the acidic content of the sweat of the users' hands.
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It is not rare to see 90s and even 2000s Tal with a nice patina all over their nickel hardware; it gives a nice vintage look without any silly artificial aging process involved...
My 1996 however is not showing any patina yet except some little spots on the pickups, it doesn't look 19 years old.
I wonder sometime if the fact the instrument was left in a case will have more or less the tendency to corrode; I suspect mine to have been a closet queen eliminating the possibility I guess.
Pickguard gassing is also something I fear like plague, so keeping the guitar in the case constantly might not be good.
Regarding delamination, my Tal is showing a slight lifting around the Gibson and both crown also, not a dramatic one though, but still a bit more than my 1992 Les Paul.
Even expensive Legrand are unfortunately not spared like we can read here:
Headstock Delamination Issue - Gibson Guitar BoardLast edited by vinlander; 09-13-2015 at 12:15 PM.
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Here for comparison the headstock of my '98 Tal Farlow. Seems to be a common problem with this model/period.
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I had exactly the same with my 96 Tal but not my 175. Its ok when the guitar shows some wear but if a guitar is really clean yet the plating has gone or is rapidly going, it doesn't match.
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I have a lowly 1981 gibby ES 175, and none of the plating on my tuners, pups or tailpiece has worn off. Still like new.
I wonder why it hasn't tarnished?
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Because it's chrome, not nickel?
Originally Posted by edh
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People seem to be talking about tarnish, but that picture looks as if some of the plating has flaked off. Tarnish is normal, but the plating coming off doesn't seem right to me. Mine is tarnished, but the plating is intact. Perhaps someone has tried to clean the one in the picture and removed some plating?
Keith
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What ever you do don't use Gibson metal cleaner. As you can see on my pics on the bass side of the tailpiece the Gibson metal cleaner took the gold plate right off leaving just the nickel plate. The bottle says safe to use on all Gibson metal parts. That is if you don't like gold plating. Hopefully Joe D will chime in. He is the expert on plating and finish care.
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Thanks Vin but I am really not an expert at plating and finish care. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
I use a good sealant on my plated parts. If the parts are new, then the sealant prolongs the deterioration process for a while. If the plating is already starting to fail, then there is nothing that could be done about it.
I really hope Gibson is paying attention to what is going on here. There are a lot of died in the wool Gibson boys here that are beginning to understand why certain people absolutely hate the brand. Im sorry but seeing the shrinkage on that Tal headstock and seeing the plating flaking off an L5 tailpiece is unacceptable. One should be able to care for their instrument and watch it stay nice for a long time. They should be able to rub off plating.
Gibson, if you are listening, call Ibanez and ask them what they did on my 35 year old Jp20 and consider doing the same thing. Then, feel ashamed of yourselves. I know you wont though..
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Joe welcome to the "I love/hate Gibson club".
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.......no matter the manufacturer, no matter the industry, no matter the product - -when you say 'plating', or 'painting', etc etc, you're talking volatile organic compounds, and then - -in the US anyway, you're either personally dealing with compliance issues, or buying parts from someone who is....... nationwide, I thought the later seventies was the beginning.... ( ? )
......I know it doesn't make anyone feel better watching surface plating fall off parts of his or her instrument, but the more you dig, the more you'll get a similar answer.....' why does my water-based paint / varnish /stain take so long to dry ', ' or why is Joe and Harry's chrome plating no longer in business ? '.......'Sorry, but we can no longer get permits to apply lacquer at this location ', ' our previous supplier doesn't do that', etc etc.....
.......sorry, not much of an answer, but I sure heard it often enough during 40 years the truck-trailer industry......
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Maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot, but I can't see what you're referring to. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Dennis you are correct. Here is Calif. you can only buy water based paints now. You can't even buy a oil based wood stain. Auto body shops can only repaint your car with water base lacquer now. All the plating business that used to be in every city have disappeared. Calif. is the worst when it comes to strict regulations and anything that is remotely deemed toxic. Back to Gibson. Their plating is flawless but it is so thin it wears off almost immediately. Their plating needs to be applied thicker. Also it won't stick if not triple plated. Copper first than nickel than gold or chrome though Gibson no longer uses chrome plate but they should as nickel corrodes almost immediately. Harley Davidson has no problem getting quality chrome plating done. Maybe Gibson should get a little advise from Harley on plating. Gold has always worn off faster than anything though. Plating is a tricky business. If it is not done exactly right it will peel off or blister. I would not be surprised if Gibson is getting their plating done off shore these days. Just too many U.S. restrictions.
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Woody it is silver on the left side of the WM emblem. Kind of hard to see. IPAD pic....
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Keith's right, that's not wear per se, but chipping around the edges. the insert in L-5 tp's is especially prone to tarnishing, they can turn almost black.
I go by the thought of if you can't clean it w/a little warm breath and a soft cloth, leave it alone, you'll almost surely take the plating off sooner rather than later. I was working a gig once and a drip of sweat hit the crossbar of my old L-5 tp and dripped. I immediately wiped it w/ a soft clean cloth and the drip took the gold right off.
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I agree that it isn't tarnish. We are seeing the plating lift off on the OP's tailpiece. Different thing altogether. The chrome plating on 175s, 335s, etc., doesn't really tarnish. It can pit and deteriorate, but chrome doesn't tarnish much. I had a '68 ES-175 until late last year that looked almost new except for the gassing keys on the old Klusons...and the affected nickel covers that were affected in the case on those tuners. The tailpiece looked factory new over 45 years later. That's chrome plating for you.
If Gibson had gold and silver plating applied as heavily as they did chrome...it would hold up as well--allowing for the fact that gold and silver are inherently softer metals than chrome.
The flaking edges on the OP's tailpiece may suggest that there was some kind of solvent on the bare metal that didn't get completely acid-bathed off prior to plating, or something like that. It shouldn't just lift up and flake off like that, but that's what has happened. In any event, the silver is going to go. Most of the tailpieces I have seen on L5 guitars have lost 100% of the silver plating on the centerpiece on the TP. The gold plating fares somewhat better. Gold doesn't oxidize the way that silver does. Silver is basically trying to go south on you from the moment you take delivery.
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