Microphones for jazz guitar recording?

[henryrobinett]

Hi Jim,

In the process of looking for a ideal mic i realized that using a good preamp is as important as the mic itself. So i bought a Millennia HV-3C which sounds very neutral with smooth highs. It was expensive, but is worth every penny as it makes a huge difference.

Yes! I have 8 channels of Millennia HV-3. I used to have 12! I love those mic pres. Ad yes they're almost as crucial as the mics themselves.

At my last studio session the engineer used a Royer R-122 ribbon mic which i liked very much too, but ribbon mics have the disadvantage to record more room sound than desirable. Also they are expensive and subject to "easy damage" because of the ribbons fragile construction.

Hm. I don't think so. Ribbon acts like kind of a dynamic. It takes a lot of power to push it. It's a figure 8 pattern which means it rejects the sound at it's sides. But it doesn't pull a lot of room in. You might be thinking of a condenser which is very sensitive and picks up everything. Though most of your better condensers have various patterns, they are still far more sensitive than the ribbons. Ribbons tend to be warm and have darker tones. Condensers tend to be brighter. Ribbons therefore tend to be jazzy. Condensers tend to be more rock 'n roll! Though there are those, myself too from time to time, who like a good ribbon in the room. Often its by engineers who don't have a better use for them. Don't know better. I almost never use the room mic, or use it so low you'd never know the difference. But that's just me.

Ribbons are sensitive in that they can damage easily. There's a ribbon element that can get damaged if you blow into it hard.

[VitalSigns]

On the Royer - I think it's probably a bit of a myth about how
fragile they are. I wouldn't use one for a gig or treat them
roughly or anything, but the modern construction is different
from the old Coles and such, and they can handle a huge SPL.
Treat them well, use them in the studio only and they will abide.

[kenbennett]

Jim,

The mic you have is pretty good. But a large diaphragm condenser might be an improvement.

Then, once you get above the entry level price range of mics (into something like the Rode NT or any other good mid-priced mic), a better mic preamp would be a consideration (something like a Focusrite ISA One or any other good mic pre).

AKG 414 is sort of a benchmark studio mic with the advantage of multi-pattern selection. If you were happy with just the cardioid pattern, then a 214 would be very nice. But the ability to use the other patterns, figure 8 and omni, are important to me. Omni-directional is the natural pattern for a condenser mic, and it has a very natural full sound with no proximity effect, as long as there is no need to block out sounds from behind the mic.

Also, a pair of similar mics is nice. For example a Rode NT1 and a NT2 would give you two similar mics to use as a stereo pair (with the NT2 in cardioid mode), while the multi-pattern capability of the NT2 would give you more flexibility for other situations.

Ribbon mics would also be a tempting choice for me.

Recording direct in, as you said, is also viable. I always run my guitar to a direct box first so I have a copy of the performance with no amp or effects in case I play well but don't like the sound. You can run that dry signal out and re-record it through an amp, or different mics, or different effects.

Sometimes I record through effects with the output of the effects going directly into the interface while, again, capturing the dry guitar through the direct box. Then if I like the performance and the sound, I'll run the affected guitar back out and record it through an amp just to get the amp tone, and perhaps reverb, plus a little bit of the room sound. My living room actually sounds pretty good, so I might put the main mic about 3 feet away from the cabinet and let it pick up reflections.

To answer your original question, I use 2 similar MXL mics, one cardioid and one multi-pattern, and a Radial Pro DI passive direct box. Both mics together cost about $300. The DI is $100 new, but I bought a used one for $60.

I have an 8-channel interface now, so I intend to collect a few more mics. I'd like to have another better pair of large diaphragm condensers, a pair of small diaphragm condensers, and a couple of SM57s. But first I'm just going to buy stands and cables, so when I'm recording with other people they can bring their own mics.

[JazzNote]

That royer which was put in front of my speaker seemed to sound okay until we came to a ballad, where i heard a strange airy sound almost like a faint wind blowing on top of the chords i was playing. When i mentioned this noise the engineer immediately replaced it (fortunately he had a second one at hand) and stated that the ribbon needs repair .... Since this was one of the top studios in the area which is not likely to use damaged gear i believe that it broke during our recording at very moderate volume levels.

[VitalSigns]

I guess gear fails for a variety of reasons, especially if it's used by lots of different
musicians, but all I can say is I've used my R-121 in some very loud (studio) situations,
including using it in front of bass drums pushing out quite a lot of air, and never had any
problems. O - and I've dropped it a couple of times, tho' not on to concrete. I trust the
ribbon, but I've been let down by condensers and had to replace capsules.

[henryrobinett]

One time I did something, someone blew into it. It sounded funny for the rest of the session so I pulled it. But the next time I used it it was fine.

[JazzNote]

I guess gear fails for a variety of reasons, especially if it's used by lots of different
musicians, but all I can say is I've used my R-121 in some very loud (studio) situations,
including using it in front of bass drums pushing out quite a lot of air, and never had any
problems. O - and I've dropped it a couple of times, tho' not on to concrete. I trust the
ribbon, but I've been let down by condensers and had to replace capsules.

After all i'm considering buying a R-121 for myself. What kind of preamp did you run it through? Reading the specs i notice that the mic needs extra gain.

[feet]

you could always use whatever preamp you choose with something like a cloudlifter or fethead to boost the signal up.

Shop - tritonaudio

reasonably priced, fairly simple solutions. i also occasionally use my interface's flat, flavorless preamps in addition to my preamps to achieve a similar effect, bump up the volume and output some without excess coloration or distortion. i've used a seventh circle audio n72 preamp in this manner, and currently prefer a shadow hills gama with my ribbons, when the mood strikes.

[fumblefingers]

just got the 121 meself