Semi-Hollow Guitars - Collings vs Sadowsky vs Gibson

[rpjazzguitar]

[QUOTE=jazzshrink;1312225]I guess my confusion stems from your assertion that "the string slides over the bridge easily". Does it really? I can easily see how this kind of movement occurs when you use a tremolo bar. But otherwise, how can I observe this movement you're talking about? Thanks in advance.[/

This is a good point, which requires some sharpening of my thinking.

When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

[jazzshrink]

...When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

Sorry, but I don't fully understand what you meant by "deflecting" the string. That being said, I would think the answer to your question is "no". As I said before, when I fret or bend a string and simultaneously pluck that string between the bridge and tailpiece, there's no change in the pitch. With a change in tension, wouldn't the pitch have to change?

[John A.]

When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

My guess is that the degree to which the lengths of string on either saddle are coupled depends on break angle over the bridge and string length behind the bridge. All I can say is that on my guitar they appear not to be. I can also say is that my guitar does not have subjectively noticeably different string tension from the specific stop-tail 335 I’ve compared it to. I’m happy to have my mind changed by evidence to the contrary.

[rpjazzguitar]

Sorry, but I don't fully understand what you meant by "deflecting" the string. That being said, I would think the answer to your question is "no". As I said before, when I fret or bend a string and simultaneously pluck that string between the bridge and tailpiece, there's no change in the pitch. With a change in tension, wouldn't the pitch have to change?

Bending or fretting it.

In a bend, you are tightening the string (the main part), which is why the pitch increases.

Seems to me that the pitch would have to change behind the bridge unless the bridge actually becomes a barrier. Perhaps not audibly?

Suppose you pluck the string behind the bridge while turning the tuning key to make the string sharper.
If the bridge is a barrier, you shouldn't hear a change in pitch. I'll have to try that later today.


EDIT: I just tried it. When I pluck behind the bridge and bend the B string, I can clearly hear the pitch shift. Same if I move the tuner. The bridge did not act as a barrier. Since the plinky sounding note behind the bridge increases in pitch when I bend or tune the string, the string must be under more tension behind the bridge.

[John A.]

Bending or fretting it.

In a bend, you are tightening the string (the main part), which is why the pitch increases.

Seems to me that the pitch would have to change behind the bridge unless the bridge actually becomes a barrier. Perhaps not audibly?

Suppose you pluck the string behind the bridge while turning the tuning key to make the string sharper.
If the bridge is a barrier, you shouldn't hear a change in pitch. I'll have to try that later today.


EDIT: I just tried it. When I pluck behind the bridge and bend the B string, I can clearly hear the pitch shift. Same if I move the tuner. The bridge did not act as a barrier. Since the plinky sounding note behind the bridge increases in pitch when I bend or tune the string, the string must be under more tension behind the bridge.

I tried it on mine, E, B, and G strings. With bending, there’s no change in pitch until a certain threshold - it takes a bit more than half-step bend to produce a change in pitch behind the bridge, and the change is quite distinct. When just fretting the string without bending there’s no change in pitch behind the string no matter where I fret the string.

Friction is a force. If you apply only a smaller force, you won’t overcome it and the string won’t move relative to the saddle.

[rpjazzguitar]

I tried it on mine, E, B, and G strings. With bending, there’s no change in pitch until a certain threshold - it takes a bit more than half-step bend to produce a change in pitch behind the bridge, and the change is quite distinct. When just fretting the string without bending there’s no change in pitch behind the string no matter where I fret the string.

Friction is a force. If you apply only a smaller force, you won’t overcome it and the string won’t move relative to the saddle.

May reflect differences in the friction between string and saddle.

[Jimmy Mack]

Weirdly, the guitar I’m most interested in comparing to a real 335 is actually the Sire 335 copy (forget the name). Given Carlton is touring with these guitars and clips suggest they have the 335 mid range… should be interesting.

The one I picked up at GC almost threw me off balance. Pretty but heavy.

[John A.]

The one I picked up at GC almost threw me off balance. Pretty but heavy.

Tim pierce compared the Sire to his 335. The Sire is brighter sounding, and he suggests it’s due to pickup differences. I haven’t tried one myself, though.

[Hammertone]

Unquestionably the ONLY three to buy are:
- Collings I35 Deluxe Artist
- 1980 Jacobacci R2L
- 1980 Polytone Improv II
[ed] So, now that I have sold all of these guitars, what I REALLY meant to say is that, unquestionably the ONLY one to buy is:
- German-made Hofner Verythin Standard
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Purely coincidentally, I have a couple of these for sale right now.
How about that, eh?

Purely coincidentally, I have one of these left for sale. And it's a really excellent guitar!

[robocoptick]

Tim pierce compared the Sire to his 335. The Sire is brighter sounding, and he suggests it’s due to pickup differences. I haven’t tried one myself, though.

[Alter]

If you actually check out his comments towards the end of the video he's pretty sincere about it! He says the Sire is a good guitar and good value towards a better Gibson which is about 4-5 times higher in price in the real market.

[robocoptick]

If you actually check out his comments towards the end of the video he's pretty sincere about it! He says the Sire is a good guitar and good value towards a better Gibson which is about 4-5 times higher in price in the real market.

do u have any idea what kind of revenue he pulls from youtube?

[bluejaybill]

The vid was sponsored by Sweetwater, and the guitar was going to be a giveaway for his channel. So take with a grain of salt maybe.

I thought the Gibson was much fuller and sweeter sounding. I don't know if it sounded 7X better, that's tough to quantify. At that multiple, the Gibson should totally smoke the Sire. Whether it did or not is up to the ear of the beholder. I will say that I thought he played and sounded better on the Gibson.

One thing's for sure, it's an excellent beginner or even intermediate guitar at that price, much better than what we could get when we were starting out. Or at least when I was starting out!

[arnie65]

I've owned all 3 brands, I bought one of the first Sadowsky Jim hall's, I bought a Collings I35-LC from online teacher Jens Larsen 4 years ago, and I had at least 3 Gibson ES335's. One thing about guitars is that, they're very much like shoes; they have to be the right fit for you, not just look good. The Collings always felt like I shouldn't play it outside of the studio, for fear of getting a dent or scratch on it, later on I sold it and got me a used Gibson ES335 that felt like an old shoe, and I played it everywhere without a care in the world. The Sadowsky was a beautiful guitar, but the tone never did anything for me, regardless the amp I used, for some reason I felt more comfortable with the Gibson, which by the way I later sold. I now play a Fibenare "basic Jazz" model, and it's staying with me....I always believe, there's no best, there's only what's best for you!



Cheers,
Arnie...

[dixiehwy25]

This is my member of the 330 family, the recently introduced (and maybe soon to be discontinued) 2023 Epiphone Sheraton Frequensator. It's pretty much a reboot of the 50th anniversary special version of this guitar, the differences seem to just be an Indian laurel fretboard instead of a rosewood one, and the "new and improved" Epiphone Mini Humbucker Pro pickups instead of the Gibson ones that were in the anniversary edition. Everything else on the 2023 model seems to be duplicated from the 50th anniversary version. It's pretty much a luxury model with copious intricate binding, mother of pearl inlays, and top notch tuners. Also gold trim.

Thanks to Jens Larson and his $400 Ibinez jazz guitar video, I started looking around in the 330 family. I found this on the Guitar Center site for two thirds of the price of a new one, so it was pretty much a no-brainer. Its condition is nearly new. How good is it? A friend of mine has a 1972 Gibson 330, but he can't seem to put mine down. I think that's a pretty good testimonial. I know I'm happy with it even if it was a bargain.

[DustinG]

I just got my SA2200. Tried bidding on a few here and lost and so I found a store in Germany that shipped one to me from Japan. I tested it out and put it away for a while all that craftsmanship made me nervous. I'm used to cheaper guitars. My Eastman T185MX is a WORKHORSE! I'm going to have to get the nerve to put the 2200 in the regular rotation.

I was in NYC a few months ago but the Sadowsky store was closed. My fault I should have called earlier. Everything I've heard says they're mint. Now I see this Thorn Grantura that's costs as much as a used Honda! SHEESH

I know this is an old post, but which did/do you prefer between them Yamaha SA2200 and Eastman T185mx? Do you still own them both?

[garybaldy]

I voted Gibson but I have two very nice and extremely well built Vester MOD 700s.

[cvbinrichmond]

I have a Yamaha AES 1500 and it has been sitting in the case for years. Bought new strings…12-52 flats and now it’s my favorite. At least for now. Funny how my likes change every so often. I also have an Ibanez GB 10 Japan I like, but so heavy. My Sadowsky semi is a great guitar. Have two full size heritages…H575 and H550. They are also good but big. Also, a DAngelico Excel SS small body 15 in.? My preferences seem to change and I’m never quite satisfied. Still looking. Guild makes great guitars. I had a Gibson ES 175 it sold it…too big and unwieldy. If I could keep just one I guess it would be the Sadowsky semi. The Yamaha may be a second. The Excel SS 3rd.