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Like the title says, if you had to choose between a Tele and 335 guitar for playing jazz, what would your choice be? And why?
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08-12-2015 11:01 AM
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335 for me.
Tele's are great, but the twang thing they do is not needed for jazz. A hollow body, or semi, is just going to sound rounder and fuller than a solid body, esp. with flat wounds.
Also, audiences, esp. unsophisticated ones, seeing a player with a tele will tend not to "hear jazz", Ed Bickert notwithstanding. The visual cue of the type of instrument they're used to seeing helps put the music message across.
(In fact, for a while during the 70's, I'm not sure 335 type guitars were not more predominant in jazz, as 175's were maybe thought of as a bit old fashioned. Scofield, Larry Carlton, Sheryl Bailey, Kevin Eubanks, Abercrombie, Vic Juris, Steve Khan, Jack Grassel, etc. are all players who played a semi-type or thin-line hollow body type guitar, i.e. something short of the "big box" of the 175, or L5, etc.)
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I would go with a Les Paul.
The Les Paul was designed to be the competitor to the Tele. It did not sell very well so Gibson came up with the 335.
The best choice is to have one of each, A Tele, a 335, a Les Paul....And a Strat, a 175 etc.
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No question, tele.
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Hm...Abercrombie is one of my favorite guitar players, if not the favorite, and I've seen him playing telecaster style guitar and LP style guitars (and some other crazy guitars), but I've never seen him playing a 335.
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Mr. Beaumont, you're known for being a tele guy, but could you please elaborate, what is it that you don't like in 335 in comparison to tele, or what characteristics of the tele you prefer in comparison to 335?
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Well, I saw him (Abercrombie) play live at my local library, and I was sitting about fifteen feet away, and he looked to be playing some type of semi-hollow body instrument. Wasn't a Gibson or any of the more commonly produced brands. This was probably ten years ago.
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I've never in general bonded with semi-hollows, even though i do own one that i really like and use for teaching quite a bit. But for jazz, playing a 335 or a 335ish guitar always feels like i'm playing an archtop substitute, a compromise, wheras the tele really feels like it's own thing. Originally Posted by aleksandar
Just my personal opinion. And to be honest, were i in a rock band, i'd have a tele and a 335 and that would cover EVERYTHING.
And i'm sure I've said it a million times...but...teles need not "twang."Last edited by mr. beaumont; 08-12-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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Tele.
Why? Scalelength.
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I have played guitar for 50 years, now, since I was ten. I played tenor banjo before that, since age seven. I have the experience of growing up in a musical household in which both parents played both guitar and banjo. Dad played harmonica, too, and mom played the piano and organ.
I have always had both solid body and semi-acoustic guitars around. I moved into playing carved, archtops when I was 18. I studied classical guitar, but grew up playing blues (as did my parents), then rock and jazz.
I flirted in college with both early model SG guitars (a Custom) and Les Pauls--who didn't in the early 70s? However, from then till now I have always had a Stratocaster, a Telecaster, a thinline electric (either Gretsch or Gibson), and an archtop electric (usually an ES-175). About 20 years ago, I switched from Gretsch and Gibson acoustic-electric thinlines to the ES-335. Recently, I moved from the 175 to a 25-1/2" scale, carved archtop electric.
If I could only own one electric guitar, it would be a full-sized, carved-body electric archtop--L5CES, Super-400CES, Heritage Super Eagle, etc. For my music, that fits the bill.
However, if I had to choose between a Telecaster or a 335 (and if you said "no full-sized archtops, only solid-bodies or thinlines," those two would be my choices), it would come down to a coin toss, for me. I find those two guitars to be the two _most_ broadly applicable electric instruments for ANY type of music ever offered by instrument makers. _Narrowly_, I might come down in favor of the Telecaster. It has slightly more range than the 335, and I have gradually moved almost entirely to playing the 25-1/2" scale over the past few years.
Close call. And NEVER let anyone tell you that a Tele on the neck pickup is somehow unsuitable for jazz...BS!
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I got a 335 in high school and a T-style a few years ago. It took me a long time to turn to the dark side!
The Tele. Why?
1. I've come to prefer single coil (neck) pickups.
2. I prefer the 25 1/2" scale.
3. I find the neck more comfy, but that depends on your profile. I like fat necks.
4. You can't ignore that Gibson 335s are over-priced and that there are good, cheap, Asian T-styles. Good cheap 335-clones are harder to find.
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Statutorily required interruption: "growing up in a musical house" and "played a banjo" is a contradiction in terms [ducks]. Originally Posted by Greentone
Faced with a choice between Tele and 335 ... I opted for Strat and a less expensive semi-hollow. I'm glad to have both, but would be fine with either one. I've never particularly jonesed for a Tele, though I like the way other people sound when they play them.
John
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I used my Tele on my Monday night gig and plan on using my 335 on tonight's gig. (all I do are jazz gigs)
The Tele is lighter and is more durable for Certain. And it was cheaper.
The 335 has the shorter scale, slimmer neck and wider nut (not to mention double cutaway) making it a bit "faster" for me.
Since my Tele has a humbucker in the neck position (Duncan mini) and both guitars have Thomastic flatwound 12's on them, they both get a great jazz sound, particularly paired with one of my vintage Fender tube amps (both of which have high quality alnico speakers and high quality tubes).
I am glad that I do not have to choose.
If I really had to choose just one, I would probably go with the Tele, but just barely. You cannot go wrong either way.
FWIW, Leo designed the Tele and the Strat as jazz guitars. McCarty designed the Les Paul and the 335 as jazz guitars as well. Of the 4, the 335 has been best accepted by jazz guitarists. My theory is that we just don't feel right playing jazz on a guitar unless it has F holes!
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Tele, mine has a neck humbucker (dimarzio paf pro) and a fender noiseless in the bridge, a 5 way switch and I reversed the control plate so the volume is closest to the neck. I think the neck position sounds closest to a Fender Rhodes mellow sound I'm a Bickert freak so the tele is a no brainer.
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Statutorily required interruption: "growing up in a musical house" and "played a banjo" is a contradiction in terms [ducks].
Had to comment on this...I liked the comment.
In fact, growing up in a musical household probably arrests development--in a sense, you probably don't grow up, but remain a kid at heart, with all that music going on. Especially in my case. My parents made a deal: for each song of "theirs" I learned, they would learn one of "mine." So, my parents knew Stones, Animals, Beatles, Ry Cooder, etc. Meanwhile, I knew how to play 20s, 30s, and 40s standards. Came in handy, later on.
Playing a banjo. Hmm? Tenor and Plectrum banjo are _great_ instruments in their own rights. There was always Eddie Peabody or Harry Reser playing on the "hi-fi" at home. Banjo always constituted part of the rhythm section in New Orleans bands (I am from Louisiana). Only when the archtop guitar came out did banjo players in jazz bands switch to the guitar--e.g., the Van Eps brothers (Fred and George), Tiny Grimes, and others.
Ask Howard Alden or Rob McKillop if the four-string banjo is not a valid jazz instrument?
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The best thing is to go to your local shop and spend some time on each. Then decide what feels best. What others favor should not be your primary influence in choosing. One important note is that there are a lot of 335 style guitars from different manufacturers available. Cheap to expensive with varying pup configurations, scale lengths, electronics and anything else you can think of. Having gone thru the search and buy ordeal not that long ago I can tell you with high confidence that searching for the right one is no easy task and requires a good bit of time. Good luck!
I prefer the 335 over the tele mainly because of the way it feels to my hand. I just could not get comfy with the ones that I tried and really did not care much for the tone. No offense to the Tele fans out there.
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Yeah, not to mention Django who started out on banjo (and violin) at a younger age. In fact, you could probably compile a pretty good list of guitarists who started out on "junior" instruments---either banjo, ukulele, or tenor guitar. George Van Eps' father was considered, acc'd to Scott Yanow, one of the top 2 banjo players in the world for probably twenty years. Acc'd to Yanow, 2 events precipitated the decline of the banjo in jazz: 1. the playing of Eddie Lang in the 20's, and 2. better recording techniques (1925-7) which allowed guitarists to be heard. (Formerly banjo was used as it "cut through" better on recordings.) Originally Posted by Greentone
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Gibson was always my brand and the 335 one of my favorites. I have owned 2 of them (Not at the same time, I was always a one-guitar guy). When my 2nd 335 was stolen, my dad gave me a beat up 1954 Les Paul Jr that had been hanging in my closet for years. I had it restored by my friend Peter Jones. Not long afterwards Peter got a call from a stranger wanting to sell a 335 for $100. He knew something was fishy and asked for a complete description of the 335 and realized it was probably mine. So he got contact info and said he would come down to their studio and buy it. But instead of him, it was me and a detective from the Atlanta police. I walked out of there with my guitar.
So I get home with my 335 and there's my restored Les Paul. I knew I had to choose, because it was an opportunity to recoup the money I had spent on the LP restoration. It was no contest. The Les Paul sounded way better. So I took the 335 to a dealer and went back a couple of weeks later to pick up my cash.
So, right there, I chose the solid body over the semi.
I have never owned but one Fender and it was a Tele. It was old and almost as beat up as the LPJ was, but it was playable, and I used it mostly as a spare guitar. One night our bass player wanted to get off the stage. He said he just needed a break. So the trombone player picked up the bass and for some reason I put down my Gibson and switched to the Tele. We played "Stormy Monday Blues" and the whole band took a break.
Then the bass player wanted to talk to me. He said that he had been thinking about quitting the band. He was frustrated. Loud, muddy music played in loud, boisterous clubs was getting to him (He came from a family of classical musicians). He said that as soon as I hit the intro on the Tele he perked up. And when the rhythm section kicked in he heard what the band really sounded like. He said the guitar was so clear, and full, and rich that it changed his mind. And he stayed with the band as long as the band lasted. The Telecaster changed his world!
So there you go. The best compliment I ever got out of playing the 335 was that I sounded like Larry Carlton. And it's true. The 335 is much more of a one-trick pony than the Tele. The 335 doesn't do clear, full, and rich all at the same time as well as the Tele. It's more of a cutting, focused sound, at least in my hands.
I can get a pretty good sound out of any good guitar. But, to me, the 335 is not any better suited for jazz than a LP or a Tele. It's a great guitar, and I miss having a semi-hollow, but I faced the reality. Qualified listeners told me directly or indirectly what sounded better to them.
Now I have neither a Tele nor a 335. Would like to have both.Last edited by kenbennett; 08-12-2015 at 06:57 PM.
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I have owned both, and prefer the size, weight, tone and general playability of my Baja Tele. That model has a neck profile very close to my ES175.
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I've wanted a 335 for a long time, but the right one just hasn't come along. I just haven't found the magic!
Tonewise, I like LPs just as much as 335s, but the small body of the LP is not my fave -- LP ergonomics just don't work for me.
I have a decent tele (72' custom RI) that I like but don't really love. All of my hollowbodies and flat-top acoustics make me must happier than either choice.
Then I met this great strat today! more on that later . . .
for now-- 335 vs tele = other stuff
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jazz or otherwise, i'd take the 335. heck, even today, with no tele and a 355-ish guitar (with minis) i'd probably take a 335. i've tried to pick up a tele over the years but it didn't work for me. just too thin and clear for my needs. every split coil or single coil experience i've had since hasn't convinced me otherwise. i still think they look neat and wouldn't mind one, but something like a dynasonic'd penguin or a jazzmaster seems more likely, and perhaps, more me, if i were to go down that route. something about the modularity and the simplicity of the tele is appealing, but it just hasn't worked for me and i stopped trying. i get by ok.
and while the 335 and pretty much anything labeled "gibson" is well overpriced i'd say the same about most custom shop fenders, too, if not many of they us made ones. but i just play guitars, what do i know?
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I would probably look into the Asian stuff for a semi-hollow; in fact, I bought a Samick Royale by Greg Bennett, excellent working instrument, for $450, new. There may well be a better-sounding 335 out there, or maybe not, but you'll pay, what, 8-10 times the price? Only other guitar players are interested in the brand, not the audience, unless you suck, then they might blame the instrument, if led in that direction.
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Not to mention... Django Reinhardt too started on a banjo. So it was you who taught your parents good music, not the other way round. How cool is that! Originally Posted by Greentone
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Saw a great concert some years ago by a very impressive Swiss guitarist, quite well known but I can't remember his name. One of the best shows I ever saw. He had a big band behind him, it was a modern big band concept covering the whole range from swing era jazz to Larry Carlton vibes. All he played that night was a pink semi-hollow Tele and it worked perfectly for everything be it four-to-the-bar comping or hot jazz-blues licks.
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+1. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It's a matter of setup. A set of medium or heavy flatwounds, picking over the neck PU, appropiate amp settings, and one is right in the jazz ballpark. The same goes for Strats. Fenders are VERY versatile instruments - can be pushed in a lot of directions. BTW, due to their modular design they are easy to tweak into whatever ones ideosyncracies call for (which can be fun to do). I like the Fender concept a lot, have two of them myself - a Fender Strat and a Warmoth partscaster.
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