-
Dear God no. I'd rather stand around and bitch about it then play a badly set up guitar.
-
03-24-2021 03:32 PM
-
It is irrational to you for an outstanding musician not.
Originally Posted by Marcel_A
-
Just out of curiosity, I would like to see and hear , for example, Carlos Santana playing PRS with 14s...strings. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I agree that you can get used to something, but it still can impede creative expression...like if I was asked to play a tune at a Chicago blues style session and somebody handed me an archtop with .014s...I'd have to pay in a way that maybe wasn't what I was actually hearing.
But I've also taken to using lighter strings now on my teles to be more flexible...I'm down to .011s. Hey, that's a big step for me
-
high action, heavy strings (14 to 52 custom set), round wound.
Put in new frets that were taller and fatter fret wire gauge... forgot the gauge, think I may said it years ago on the thread when I had John Carruthers work om my guitar.
Definitely not stock for an Eastman AR803.
I dunno, it's a matter of touch and that's different for everyone. That said, I agree with the OP about action and creativity. I dial mine as high as is comfortable. Too high up and the sustain cuts out. Too low and I can't vary my dynamics. Varied dynamics, a range of dynamics from pp to ff, that's very important to me.
Similar to what others have already said.
And it affects the sound. Wes Montgomery could have worked with a really low action, but I get closer to that sound with my current setup that favors higher action. I think Grant Green also had high action, but I could be wrong.
All a matter of preference. To be honest, it's good to hear about other people who play with high action--I thought that I was one of the few outliers. Nothing wrong with low action if that's what you like, but it's not the "golden standard" that we should all follow. Neither is high action, but I do see a lot of threads about "getting the lowest action possible." Not many on the other end of the spectrum. Pisses me off when I bring my guitar to a tech and it's setup with the strings to the deck. Thank goodness for larger thumb wheels that actually turn... I could never adjust the smaller thumb wheels at tension and that made making height adjustments a pain in the arse.Last edited by PickingMyEars; 03-24-2021 at 05:45 PM.
-
Bottom line: if the feel of an instrument pisses you off, you ain't gonna be feeling too creative.
But, the thread title is semantically flawed and seems to be causing some unnecessary friction. The wrong feel (eg, string height, tension etc) would inhibit technique or interaction with the instrument. Loss of creativity could then be a concomitant of that.
(I haven't read all the posts)
-
Responding to a few posts...
Columbus set out with five ships, two were lost over the edge of the world.
There are two kinds of creativity being discussed:
- general long term creativity (like composing, probably innate, stable, resistant to being suppressed)
- special short term creativity (like improvising, in the moment, subject to slings and arrows on a bad night)
The distinction between the mind and the hands as a classical philosophical duality is N/A. The mind knows only the central nervous system, comprised of rates of depolarization. Everything is derived from and is comprised of the same*, including the ideas of "music", "hands", "guitar", and "mind" itself.
* No Irish Anglican Bishop philosophers from the 17th century were harmed during the composition of this post.Last edited by pauln; 03-24-2021 at 07:13 PM.
-
Forget Cartesian Dualism.
Let's talk phenomenology, meaning via experience.
Then we can talk On Being as such later.
Why do so many of us guitarist folk love philosophy?
These days, I think my job is Kafkaesque... the definitions of that term always focus on the grotesque. For me, Kafkaesque is really about the absurdity and monstrosity of the mundane thus normalizing the absurd in the process. We become blase to that which was never meant to job out into the foreground in the first place. Bureaucracy is a key element of the Kafkaesque.
Now look what you all made me do
Anyway...
-
It's not just action, it's the entire rig from pick to the air in the room.
If the guitar sounds and feels like I need it to, it frees me up to play my best.
If the guitar doesn't sound like what is in my mind, it can feel like I'm playing with somebody else's hands.
Oftentimes, in a new room, it takes me a set to acclimate to the way everything sounds -- even though the gear is the same. By the second set, the planets can be aligned.
-
1 I’ve noticed that a ‘bad’ or ‘untrue’ sound
makes me play more unneeded notes and leads to bs ....
2 too low an action (for me) gives a bad sound
so yeah I kinda agree with the proposition
but i can well see how other players (maybe more subtle players like Jim ) could want /need a lower/easier action than me ....
cool , we all different innit
-
So, PickingMyEars, invokes, perhaps, Kafka's "Metamorphosis". What a perfect remark to this discussion. O.K. So, let's consider it from another angle. Wes Montgomery shows up for a gig and discovers his L5 has been stolen. However, sitting in the audience is the young Marinero with his gloss black Kay Value Leader triple pickup guitar with an iridescent pickguard and abominable action. It is the only guitar available for the gig. He offers its use to Wes for the night and he accepts. Does Wes have a bad night? Is his creativity thwarted? Does the audience walk out in disgust midway through the first show? He plays the gig.
Play live . . . Marinero
P.S. Marcel mentions, previously, the adaptability of professional pianists who play different instruments regularly and, logically, their creativity is not thwarted. So, I once had the good fortune ,during my college years, to play with an excellent Jazz pianist well beyond my skills as a saxophonist at that time. We got a gig at a small club in Chicago that offered live music on Saturdays. When we arrived, we set up and the bassist and I tuned to the piano and to our dismay, it was brutally out of tune. And, for saxers, who can only tune up to a quarter-tone at best, this was bizarre. So, walk or play? We played and had a good gig with the exception that we couldn't play any ballads since the old box was so sour. After the gig, the pianist asked the owner: when was the piano tuned last? His reply: "You have to tune those things, Man?" This became our mantra every time we got a bad box which surprisingly was not uncommon. Was his creativity thwarted? He burned it all night long. M
-
but, but . . . don't we have to suffer for our art? Isn't creation founded in pain?
-
The life of a creative artist will be filled with pain regardless. May as well utilize it. Originally Posted by DRS
-
My playing is very creative on a Telecaster with D'Addario 10s strings ... I've been working to get some pretty thin strings for about 2 years.
-
So, what if I handed you a guitar with 17's, a very badly bowed neck and action as high as telegraph wires? Let's see how that affects your "creative inspiration"! Originally Posted by Marinero
-
Something is irrational or it is not. This is not a personal opinion. I have seen many irrational decisions by musicians over the years. It's a bit like tennis. They have to have exactly the right tension on the racket, the right size balls, new balls every few games and some become very insecure when something is off. And this effects their tennis. Originally Posted by kris
The only ratio behind this all is the ratio that they are being irrational and to prevent that, things should be exactly as they want. If it means to bring 20 rackets to a game at exactly the right tension, that is what it takes. If you follow this through they all become like nadal: i bit neurotic. Full of senseless ticks.
-
100% personal preference. I like high-ish action, I play hard alot of the time, always have. I like to get my fingertip UNDER the high E for big bends (I'm not a jazzer). Intonation can be a bit of a bitch, but it is do-able. I like a little "fight". Makes me pay attention and be present, more "invested." You can't Half-ass anything with high action.
If I pick up someone's guitar with low action, I can barely play it.
Altho I do wonder, as then years roll on (I'm 52 this year), if my string gauges and action will start coming down...
-
There is no way around it: if you play the piano, you are not bringing your own untill you are a pro with your own truck. Untill then your creativity sucks? Originally Posted by Marinero
-
I gave the example of the outstanding pianist Krystian Zimerman, one of the greatest pianists in the world who plays classical music. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
His sensitivity to sound probably causes him to take the piano with him to concerts.
Music and sports - I would be careful to compare it.
-
Probably?
You seem to a argue the fact that some pianists bring their own concert piano to a ‘gig’. I am not disagreeing with that. I know that. He is not the only one.
The question is whether it is rational. My guess it is not.
-
If guitar action had no effect on the way we play, we would have no need to fret over it. (Pun intended.)
Do you remember the story about Prince whooping (among others) Eddie Murphy and his brother Charlie at basketball, while Prince wearing them purple high-heel boots and a lace shirt? (Google it.) OK worked for Prince, but I doubt most of us could play even for 2 minutes wearing high heels. Or street shoes. Or anything but bona-fide legit rubber-soul sneakers.
Anyway, I usually play 11s or 12s and keep the action fairly low. I don't play rock music at all, but sometimes I wonder if I had a Strat set up with slinky strings and the action set at a gnat's hair if I could play like Jeff Beck. It might happen. At least I might WANT to play like Jeff Beck.
-
Marcel, Originally Posted by Marcel_A
It may seem unreasonable to us, but if this pianist is doing this, maybe there is no way out - it is a really cosmic level of performance.
-
Hi,P, Originally Posted by princeplanet
So, what if I handed you a guitar with 17's, a very badly bowed neck and action as high as telegraph wires? Let's see how that affects your "creative inspiration"!
I'd cancel the gig since the instrument, for me, would be unplayable. However, creativity does not appear and disappear randomly or sequentially. You either have it . . . or you don't. Simple. I have played with very competent musicians over the years who played artist-grade instruments. They were highly-skilled musicians that lacked creativity and knew it. No matter how hard they tried or however many New Age hocus pocus techniques they tried . . . they never found it. I have also played with musicians who didn't have high-level technique but were very creative players. I once needed a guitarist for a Jazz-Rock Big Band I led and auditioned many guitarists for the gig. I didn't hire the "hottest" player but rather a guitarist who had great ears and was very creative in his approach to the music. I never regretted that decision since he bloomed quickly and became a great player after some time on the bandstand playing gigs.
A novelist will not become a great creative writer with a new pen or a quality ream of paper.
A painter will not be a creative artist with professional grade brushes and paint.
A musician will not become a creative player with an L5 and his perfect choice of strings
So, if you want to believe that creativity is attainable with time, choice of instrument, or in this case-- tension of guitar-strings . . . you are a clearly addicted to Black Magic and would be considered ,by some, a delusional soul. As I said earlier--it's a gift: some have it; others don't. There is one caveat, however, which is provable-- namely, musicians similar to athletes have good and bad nights. Any working musician knows this and why the gods of creativity are punishing you one night is as much an enigma as why they fill your cup with wine on another night. This is far beyond the usual discussions of this Forum and is, for me, in the realm of ontology and neuroscience.
Finally, I believe I have stated my views on creativity and don't believe I can add anything else that hasn't been already said. The beauty of human existence, and certainly, its angst, is that we are all different in nature, intelligence, and skills. Sartre, one of my favorite writers, in his "Psychology of the Imagination" states that consciousness can either be perceived or imagined but that the two processes cannot be be combined. I would agree.
Play live . . . and signing out of the discussion . . . Marinero
-
Well for starters, that's a false equivalency, so... Originally Posted by princeplanet
So, what if I handed you a guitar with 17's, a very badly bowed neck and action as high as telegraph wires? Let's see how that affects your "creative inspiration"!
-
Marinero, you keep arguing that folks here are saying that an instrument /setup can MAKE you be creative...which nobody is saying.
-
Altho that's an interesting side point... I've read umpteen people ("stars"/pro players) talk about how a specific instrument inspires them more than others, in some cases a particular instrument "inspired them" to write a particular song. Still, it's not really the instrument doing that, it's just the 2nd "1" in a 1+1=3 formula, with the artist being the 1st "1". Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos