Electro Harmonix 22500 Looper

[spiral]

Cool new looper from Electro Harmonix.

I was an avid user of their 2880 but the lack of MIDI sync and how huge it was with the almost-required remote made it less desirable than the Boomerang III (which I currently have and love).

The 22500 makes some important changes that bring it back to the fore as a looper to consider:

• Save multiple loops w/ ability to select them again (2880 would save but you couldn't reload them)
• SD storage (instead of CF)
• Small footprint and all essential options on front
• Mic & guitar input (simultaneous)
• Tempo change w/out pitch shift
• Drum loops

A few things that I think make it less desirable compared to the Pigtronix Infinity and Boomerang III:

• No MIDI sync (2880 had it, but it never worked right until years later)
• No creative manipulation (reverse, octave, multiply) by foot

EH makes great sounding and functioning pedals and it seems to sit between the Jamman and a Boomerang.
Electro-Harmonix has a Dual Stereo Looper with Layering, USB - Create Digital Music

[Edit] Apparently this was announced in Feb... so not so new. I don't know if it started shipping though. Also added drum loop info.

[floatingpickup]

Cool new looper from Electro Harmonix.

I was an avid user of their 2880 but the lack of MIDI sync and how huge it was with the almost-required remote made it less desirable than the Boomerang III (which I currently have and love).

The 22500 makes some important changes that bring it back to the fore as a looper to consider:

• Save multiple loops w/ ability to select them again (2880 would save but you couldn't reload them)
• SD storage (instead of CF)
• Small footprint and all essential options on front
• Mic & guitar input (simultaneous)
• Tempo change w/out pitch shift

A few things that I think make it less desirable compared to the Pigtronix Infinity and Boomerang III:

• No MIDI sync (2880 had it, but it never worked right until years later)
• No creative manipulation (reverse, octave, multiply) by foot

EH makes great sounding and functioning pedals and it seems to sit between the Jamman and a Boomerang.

Electro-Harmonix has a Dual Stereo Looper with Layering, USB - Create Digital Music

i see a reverse and octave indicator in the picture?
Keith

[michael_bxl]

i see a reverse and octave indicator in the picture?
Keith

My jamman also has a reverse and I never understood what was the purpose of this function. Didn't find any people using it.

The EH seems to be a great looper with the two separate loops A/B.

[spiral]

i see a reverse and octave indicator in the picture?
Keith

Correct. "by foot"

Maybe if you don't wear shoes you could operate by foot. You could control those via the remote on the 2880 and w/ the 4th button on the Boomerang. Not a huge loss as this would be a great practice tool.

My jamman also has a reverse and I never understood what was the purpose of this function. Didn't find any people using it.

It reverses the audio of the loop. People use it as a creative option. If you are playing mostly jazz music you probably wouldn't run across it much. As a "straight ahead" option it looks to compare favorably to the Infinity, especially on price.

22500 is $276 (@ B&H)
Infinity is $450

I feel like for the features, and compared to the competitors, the 22500 is an incredible deal.

[floatingpickup]

Correct. "by foot"

Maybe if you don't wear shoes you could operate by foot. You could control those via the remote on the 2880 and w/ the 4th button on the Boomerang. Not a huge loss as this would be a great practice tool.


It reverses the audio of the loop. People use it as a creative option. If you are playing mostly jazz music you probably wouldn't run across it much. As a "straight ahead" option it looks to compare favorably to the Infinity, especially on price.

22500 is $276 (@ B&H)
Infinity is $450

I feel like for the features, and compared to the competitors, the 22500 is an incredible deal.

It looks like a great looper and a good price.
Keith

[s1track3d]

22500 is $276 (@ B&H)

Wow! Thanks for the heads up, I think I and my EHX Nano 360 ($135) have looper envy...
This looks like a huge step up, I'm realizing I want more than what the 360 provides but I still want 'simple' and playing live ease ability. Like with the 360 I've found it very hard to capture parts in rhythmic time...

[kris]

nice!

[Jabberwocky]

Man, if I carried this in my hand luggage and tried to board a plane Homeland Security will be all over me. It looks exactly like one of those devices out of a Hollywood movie.

Try strapping it to your chest and walking around the city with it. No kidding, fellas, we live in very twitchy times.

[spiral]

Wow! Thanks for the heads up, I think I and my EHX Nano 360 ($135) have looper envy...
This looks like a huge step up, I'm realizing I want more than what the 360 provides but I still want 'simple' and playing live ease ability. Like with the 360 I've found it very hard to capture parts in rhythmic time...

Sure thing and agreed. It's a good balance between some of the supreme loopers with all of the creative options (Boomerang III, EH 445000, Looperlative) and the simpler "just one loop" pedals (TC Ditto, Jamman, EH 360). It compares favorably to the Infinity Looper but aims to be more a songwriter's tool with drum patterns, XLR in,but doesn't have MIDI. I'm happy with the Boomerang but at this price I'm going to check out the 22500. I love that the reverse and octave are right on the front and you have 1:1 controls for each loop.

What do you mean you have trouble capturing parts in rhythmic time? Do you mean you can't get a seamless loop? or that your rhythm is irregular?

nice!

Figured you would be of interest. I think this is one to consider knowing that you were looking at the Infinity (which I have nothing against, they make great pedals, it's just pricey).

Try strapping it to your chest and walking around the city with it. No kidding, fellas, we live in very twitchy times.

LOL. OK. I'll strap that to my chest, and a Roland Micro Cube to my belt and play a loop of Raffi's "Bananaphone". Do you think Greenpeace to ask to sign their petitions then?

[Jabberwocky]

...LOL. OK. I'll strap that to my chest, and a Roland Micro Cube to my belt and play a loop of Raffi's "Bananaphone". Do you think Greenpeace to ask to sign their petitions then?

Be sure to use one of those black coilly cables...Man, the SWAT snipers will have a bead on you in no time.

It just reminded me: I was carrying a maple rolling pin in a cardboard box as a gift for my sister through Narita International Airport. I was pulled aside, frisked and patted down in full view of the public by airport security. This was in 1993. Given today's climate, I am sure I would be made to lie sprawl-eagled on the floor with guns pointed at my head if I had that thing on me.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on an interesting looper. I'm gonna check it out. But I won't be taking it onboard with me.

[s1track3d]

What do you mean you have trouble capturing parts in rhythmic time? Do you mean you can't get a seamless loop?

Yes, I find it very difficult to actually create a seamless rhythmic loop. Maybe I just need a lot more practice with it, but I find it very hard to actually capture the loop in the right spot.

[spiral]

It just reminded me: I was carrying a maple rolling pin in a cardboard box as a gift for my sister through Narita International Airport. [..]

Ha. Good times! If some angry mother got ahold of that, there could be trouble. Better safe than sorry.

My own security story: I lived in London for a bit in 1999 and my friends there were obsessed with asking about guns, half-jokingly asking if everyone carried one in the US. So when I was in the states for a holiday I found this incredible vintage ceramic ashtray with a life-size 6-shooter revolver, the type you see in old westerns. It looked like this.

I flew back to London and made it through Detroit, Chicago, and Heathrow, with the ashtray in my carry on—no issues. I had some visa issues and the Queen sent me home 4 hours later. On the return flight I got routed through New Jersey and at one of the xray machines, I saw the xray person literally gasp, cover their monitor with a 3 ring binder, and motion for their manager. Within 30 seconds there were 5 people huddled around the monitor. I immediately raised my hand and said "that's me!" knowing exactly what was going on. I was taken to a room and searched rather enthusiastically and they eventually put the ashtray on the plane, in a sealed box, with the staff, so I couldn't touch it. The sad ending was that it made it, intact, across the ocean twice, through 6 airports, but when I mailed the ashtray to my friend, it arrived completely smashed in the Post.

Yes, I find it very difficult to actually create a seamless rhythmic loop. Maybe I just need a lot more practice with it, but I find it very hard to actually capture the loop in the right spot.

Yeah. It could just be practice. There is a sweet spot where you both anticipate it but relax enough to not jump the gun. It's easy to end it too soon. It's also a weird interaction that as a guitarist you aren't used to doing: coordinating your feet and hands.

My playing ability is far far below most of the people here but I can loop like a champ, so I'm very confident that by working at it, even just a few weeks, you will master it quite easily. It's a very handy thing for practice and writing. Eventually you will do it without thinking about it.

[Jabberwocky]

LOL. Great story, spiral. Your story beats mine!

I betcha, these days, they will lock the airport down. Pre-9th September 2001, things were a lot different.

[grahambop]

Yes, I find it very difficult to actually create a seamless rhythmic loop. Maybe I just need a lot more practice with it, but I find it very hard to actually capture the loop in the right spot.

My Boss RC-20XL looper has a quantise option which fixes this - you only have to be reasonably close, and it seamlessly fills in the 'join' digitally. But you do have to have the 'metronome' on to do this, so it wouldn't be any good for creating a loop on the fly in live performance. (but you can switch the metronome off when the loop has been made, so it plays back without it).

[s1track3d]

Yeah. It could just be practice. There is a sweet spot where you both anticipate it but relax enough to not jump the gun. It's easy to end it too soon. It's also a weird interaction that as a guitarist you aren't used to doing: coordinating your feet and hands.

My playing ability is far far below most of the people here but I can loop like a champ, so I'm very confident that by working at it, even just a few weeks, you will master it quite easily. It's a very handy thing for practice and writing. Eventually you will do it without thinking about it.

months!?... it's a pedal, I need instant gratification! lol
OK, thanks, that puts it in perspective, i'll work on it, thanks.

[s1track3d]

My Boss RC-20XL looper has a quantise option which fixes this - you only have to be reasonably close, and it seamlessly fills in the 'join' digitally. But you do have to have the 'metronome' on to do this, so it wouldn't be any good for creating a loop on the fly in live performance. (but you can switch the metronome off when the loop has been made, so it plays back without it).

interesting, yeah that sounds great but yup, my main usage interest is live performance. I think I just need to really work with the 360 for a while... thanks

[Spook410]

Any hands on reports on these yet? They are starting to find their way on to more retailers sites. I'm thinking the next time I see a good discount I'll snag one. I don't really need the capabilities of a Boomerang but the looper on my delay (TC Electronic Flashback X4) isn't even adequate for practice.

[spiral]

Any hands on reports on these yet? They are starting to find their way on to more retailers sites. I'm thinking the next time I see a good discount I'll snag one. I don't really need the capabilities of a Boomerang but the looper on my delay (TC Electronic Flashback X4) isn't even adequate for practice.

I just got the 22500 a day ago so I can comment a bit on it. The Boomerang III is the looper I’ve used for years and landed on it after trying most of the other ones on the market at the time and feel it’s the best combo of size, features, usability, and sound quality. So, I do compare the 22500 to the Boomerang, just as a contrast, not because they are equivalent (the Boomerang is a $180 more), but because I think the Boomerang set the bar for a looping pedal. Both are made in the US and represent the top tier of loopers, IMO.

Hardware
The 22500 is the size of EH’s other pedals like the SMM w/ H, POG 2, Cathedral, etc. They packed lots of features into the face of it, with a focus on performance. It uses soft switches, which is very nice—long lasting and quiet. The two loop track switches are multifunction: press to record / overdub, double press to stop, hold to undo/redo. The Boomerang switches both click and creak (plastic) and they end up being quite noisy—drives me crazy.

There is no MIDI sync and they included phantom power with an XLR jack so clearly this is aimed at solo performers and/or vocalists.

One thing that is blowing my mind is that this pedal functions on a normal 9v power supply, with 240mA requirement. Most stereo pedals with lots of digital horsepower inside (Eventide pedals, Boomerang, Strymon) need lots of volts, AC, or big mA’s. The 22500 seems to give pristine signal quality and provide phantom power to a mic (though I’ve not tried w/ the mic). The Boomerang needs 9v AC, or 9v DC w/ 700mA!

Like most EH pedals, it is a little rough cosmetically, but there is a hand-made charm to what they do, and I appreciate that. EH has the best service I’ve experience. IME They will fix any of their products, in a week, for $25 (includes shipping).

Function
I have mixed feelings here. They have done a great job on some things, and overcomplicated others. The good news is important performance functions are 1:1 w/ a button: record, overdub, undo, stop, stop all, reverse, & octave. The bad news is changing loop type is a little fiddly and is set for each loop. There is a little digital selection matrix you use with a turn / press encoder to set all the parameters for a loop: Locked / Free (ie. synced loops vs. independent), multiplier (if “Locked”), quantize (to the beat), and parallel / serial (simultaneous vs. sequential). If you change loop types often, there will be lots of knob twiddling, if not, then you will set it once and never again.

The 22500 has an auto-multiply feature labelled inexplicably as “U” (“user”, maybe?) which sets it apart of the Infinity and gives the Boomerang strong competition. You can set a set multiplier so that loop B will be a multiple of loop A’s length, or you can set it to “U” to multiply automatically like the Boomerang. This is great news. (thanks for the headsup @celticelk)

Loops automatically save to the SD card as you record them—no need to manually save—and you have 100 loop save locations (called “banks”). Erasing loops is a little tedious using the selection matrix. Saving loops is quite luxurious, since there is no saving on the Boomerang.

There are built in rhythms on the SD card, and you can create your own (.wav files), which can be BPM-shifted without changing the pitch.

I would like to reiterate they did a great job and making the pedal function like 2 small loopers, side by side, with minimal controls. The 1:1 controls, like the independent volumes, reverse, octave, and all the functions packed into the foot switches, are brilliant.

Sound
What goes in, comes out. Sounds wonderful, and in stereo. I wish the octave worked without time-shifting (low octave 1/2 time; high octave double time), but you can plan ahead for this. The rhythm time shift works fine with a short range of BMP shift, say 60BPM to 70BPM, but it obviously gets choppy if you go extreme, say 120 to 40.

The Boomerang ($400ish) is still king of loopers with MIDI & ease of use. The 45000 comes close but is nearly $600 with the remote and would take up a whole pedalboard. The Infinity has the closest feature-match to the 22500, but at a much higher price, and a need to set your own multiplier ahead of time. There isn’t another looper that can touch the 22500 for size, sound quality, focus on performance, and price. I would highly recommend checking out the 22500 ($260ish) if you want to be able to save loops, only need 2 tracks, a simple / compact setup, and don’t care about MIDI sync.

I suspect EH will sell a ton and I’m keeping mine.

[edit: it was pointed out on TGP that the 22500 has an auto-multiply feature like the Boomerang. I thought it did not have it, and my chief complaint was about the lack of it. I've updated my comments to reflect that.]

[ooglybong]

Thanks for the super-thorough review and comparison, Spiral!

[Spook410]

Amazing review..

I do need something that will fit on a small pedal board and the low power requirement will make my Voodoo power supply happy. Mostly I just need it for practice but I have to wonder about the possibilities for solo performance. Also, I'm wondering what could be done with saxophone.. the mic input might actually be useful. That and combining it with something like an EH Pitchfork things could get interesting.

[spiral]

I do need something that will fit on a small pedal board and the low power requirement will make my Voodoo power supply happy. Mostly I just need it for practice but I have to wonder about the possibilities for solo performance. Also, I'm wondering what could be done with saxophone.. the mic input might actually be useful. That and combining it with something like an EH Pitchfork things could get interesting.

If you think 2 loops would be useful, I don't know that there is a better alternative to the 22500. If you only need 1 loop (w/ infinite overdubs), and no MIDI, the Jamman Solo XT, Boss RC-3 / RC-1, or Jamman Stereo (has XLR, but no 48v) would work well for less $ and with a smaller footprint. But for $270 the extra options are nice to have in the 22500—looping a pitched up and reversed sax would be otherworldly.

[medblues]

If you think 2 loops would be useful, I don't know that there is a better alternative to the 22500. If you only need 1 loop (w/ infinite overdubs), and no MIDI, the Jamman Solo XT, Boss RC-3 / RC-1, or Jamman Stereo (has XLR, but no 48v) would work well for less $ and with a smaller footprint. But for $270 the extra options are nice to have in the 22500—looping a pitched up and reversed sax would be otherworldly.

How are the rhythm tracks ? Can you set the tempo numerically (with a dial instead of tapping) ? Great review thanks !

[spiral]

How are the rhythm tracks ? Can you set the tempo numerically (with a dial instead of tapping) ? Great review thanks !

Rhythm tracks are OK. There are 16 loops included—about a quarter are rock, quarter blues, half the rest are random electronic, and other styles (1 metronome, 1 jazz, 1 country, etc.). They are just WAVs in a folder with a text file saying what the tempo is. You can create your own loops and I recommend doing that. You could easily output your own rhythm from Garageband et al. Here is a sound clip of the included rhythms. There is no separate audio output for the rhythms so I don't know how useful they are running through a guitar amp. If you were using a keyboard amp or PA this would make more sense. For practice it's fine.

You can set the BPM numerically. If you look at the photo in the first post you see in the selection matrix R Tempo. That is where you set the tempo with the selection knob. R Type is which of the 16 loops (or whatever ones you've added), and R Level is the volume of the rhythm.

One thing I forgot to mention above that is potentially a big deal is that the 22500 lets you "drop in" at any point with sync'd loops. On the Boomerang if you start a loop while one is already playing, it won't start until the first one comes back around. On the 22500, the second loop will start at whatever its sync point is with the first loop ... meaning: if you are 2 seconds into loop A, then start loop B, loop B will also start at the 2 second mark, instead of waiting until loop A starts again.

[stard]

I have seen some video reviews of EHX 22500.I like at lot because of the reverse features that i like so much.
I have some questions before deciding to buy it.
I see is not simple and fast programming it for quantize-mode ecc ecc.
For me is not a problem because when we are in studio we can lose time for programming it.
But i’ll use it also for live performance so I want to set it as fast as possible.
the questions are:
Could I save loops in bank slots with personalized quantization sets and all the other parameters so when switching from a bank to another I can recall them automatically?
If not when I imort WAv. from a Pc could set them in order to the EHX recognise the number of beats per bar so I can avoid to set the quantization everytime I switch from banks loops?
Switching from banks to banks is immediate or it add little delay?

Thanks so much

[karpool]

Yeah. It could just be practice. There is a sweet spot where you both anticipate it but relax enough to not jump the gun. It's easy to end it too soon. It's also a weird interaction that as a guitarist you aren't used to doing: coordinating your feet and hands.

My playing ability is far far below most of the people here but I can loop like a champ, so I'm very confident that by working at it, even just a few weeks, you will master it quite easily. It's a very handy thing for practice and writing. Eventually you will do it without thinking about it.

I've been looping for a while. Started with the Hardwire to get a feel and then moved to a Vox VDL-1 which just crapped out on me (was a lot of fun while it worked though). Using a loop pedal is an instrument all on its own. Takes practice to do well.