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Surely many of us have postulated how the placement of the pickup on the JP20 is less than stellar. Back in 2002 or early 2003 I saw a guy on eBay selling two artist owned AND signed instruments, whoever this cat was he must have been exceptionally talented and nice because he also had an array of backstage photos of himself and a) George Benson gifting him a truly amazing GB10 sunburst with GB's signature on the back (covered by some clear plastic). Wood on this thing was out of this world. b) the 2nd guitar was a JP20 and again this fella was backstage with Joe Pass and like the GB10 the guitar was signed by Joe Pass and from the photos it was clear he was close and on very good terms with him (and Mr. Benson). The JP20 was stock in the photos.
So what's the big deal ?? This man had taken the JP20 and installed a dark colored floating mini hum bucker to the end of the neck ALA Johnny Smith. Being the sunburst on this JP20 was so dark from 10 feet you would not notice the floater unless someone pointed it out to you. He had rigged up some type of hidden controls to use either the floater OR the body mounted hum bucker OR BOTH. Except for the pickup mounted to the neck the guitar looked totally stock.
So fast forward to this year. I'm doing business with a guy I've known for years, on eBay his handle is JohnnyLach... NY cat, been around forever, plays more than he posts. He busy LOTS of guitars from Yunzhi, like a box of donuts he gets a couple of these, a couple of those and Yunzhi cuts him a great price. He cherry picks thru the lot and sells the rest at very reasonable prices. So I'm buying a Yunzhi Pisano 680 copy from him and we're talking on the phone a bunch - couple of old guys yacking the guitar scene non stop... He tells me how his very favorite guitar is his Ibanez JP20 but he hates how he can't get the fatter tone of the pickup being it's mounted so far from the end of the fingerboard. I tell him about the modded JP20 I saw and tell him how much I LOVE my Bartolini 5J neck mounted mini on my Yunzhi AR880 copy... How with a pair of Schatten controls he should be able to dial in either or both pickups. We hash this out again and again, he buys a custom made ebony pick guard from a kid I know in Chicago (so as to leave the JP20 pick guard stock should he ever want to sell it) and has his tech mount the new ebony pick guard the 5J pickup, Schatten controls and wire the guitar up so he can have just the neck, or the body mounted or both in play...
So life goes on, I'm going thru a divorce and for like 2 months I don't hear from him. Until the other night when he leaves me a voicemail telling me how estatic he is having just completed the mod and after flight tests LOVES what he can now do with his JP20... Yeah it worked out. So let's say he wants to sell it, he has it tech remove the floater, plug the screw holes with some match sticks and stain them, re install the original pick guard and he's back to stock... Yeah.
Pictures to follow, but I thought it'd be nice to share this with many of you..
MikeLast edited by BigMikeinNJ; 06-26-2015 at 09:39 AM.
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06-26-2015 09:28 AM
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Big mike, I'm lost bro. Did you buy it? In this day and age when you can make a guitar sound like a flute via digital signal processors, I can't imagine you couldn't dial in the sound you want. But a Joe pass ibanez should sound like a Joe pass ibanez and that would be enough for me. If you want thick, just about any other guitar will do it. If you want the Joe pass sound, what better guitar can you choose other than the jp20? I would love to have a Joe Pass signed jp20 that sounds like a real Joe pass guitar. Joe pass tunes are meant to be played on a stringy sounding, pickup in the wrong place, thin, JP20. Don't change it bro. Just my .02. I wouldn't. I'll be looking for one soon. That next to my Johnny smith signed Heritage. The only thing left for me, a bigger brain in my head so I don't have to relearn their songs every time I want to play them!!!
Joe D.
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The guitars I saw in 2002-3 sold to other parties. But many bemoan the fact that the JP20 is so awesome to play and hold yet at times they want the tone like a 175 that has the pickup closer to the end of the fingerboard.
If you love the tone on the JP20 God Bless, it's not for everyone. My buddy had his modded so he has the original set in the top Super 58 and the space between he end of the fingerboard and body mounted pickup allowed for his tech to drop in the Bartolini 5J floater (neck mounted)... It works for him. And if he gets tired of it can easily have it put back totally to stock.
Just sharing the experience here.
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I don't love the tone. But it's that sort of gypsy jazz guitar kind of sound that fits with most Joe Pass compositions. It is what it is. But it's Joe Pass. When I get one, I'd want it just the way it is.
Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
Joe D
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I own two 175's and a JP20. I just do not think the 1/2 inch difference in pickup placement makes that much difference. What does make a difference is the JP20's 3/4 inch longer scale length. It has a brighter tone than a 175, but it sounds and plays great.
I love mine and would not have any interest in the mod talked about in this thread. If you watch videos of Joe Pass playing the JP20, at times his tone was superb and at times it was not so good. The difference is due to amps. Joe was not too picky about amps late in his career. He was happy to use whatever the venue had as long as he did not have to carry an amp.
I think the critics of the JP 20 and its pickup placement are wrong. And most have never played one that has been set up properly through the right amp. It is a pretty cool guitar just the way it is, just not as cool as a 175. In the end, even Joe Pass preferred the 175.
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SS, I had one years ago before I was able really appreciate it. Now I want another. I respect your opinion a lot. Now that you've given it your blessing I might accelerate my search a bit. I remember the neck on mine was pretty much perfection. Thanks. Joe D.
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Joe,
That guitar needs 13 flats (TI Swing series works great), a warm amp (Polytone or AI Clarus/RE works just fine) and you should pick between the pickup and the neck. Do that and you will have a very cool guitar that is not too valuable to take to restaurant gigs.
Get one and feel the spirit of Joe smile upon you when you play it!
Cheers,
Marc
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SS, I would appreciate the spirit of Joe smiling on me, since his spirit has been laughing his ass off at me while I try to finish Night and Day.. There are chord runs at around the 2:05 mark which have me thinking I should give up on the guitar and start playing the tambourin. I'd love to play Joe Pass stuff on a Joe Pass guitar. Maybe the ghost of Herb Ellis is pissed and he's giving me a hard time cuz I'm playing Joe Pass on my 165!!
thanks Marc. Joe D
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A fine guitar
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Archie, I'm jealous. I love it! I would trade that for my dead mint Herb Ellis 165, you know, just sayin...
Joe D
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What are jp20s going for theses dayses? Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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Apparently as much as an ES175. Originally Posted by SamBooka
In stock, $2500 cash!
https://www.archtop.com/ac_80JP20_515.html
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I have seen them anywhere from 2000 - 2200. Originally Posted by SamBooka
The labels are signed by Joe Pass, right? Just thinking it would be cool to have one of joe's and one of johnny's..
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i would move that pickup
north a bit to the 24th fret location .....
(i know it's sacrilege probably)
sorry
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For anyone who wants to change the tone slightly, just add a floating pup to the end of the neck. You'll still end up with a fantastic playing, fantastic sounding guitar for under £1500.
It is a basic MIJ high end copy of a D'aquisto.
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Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
Which was precisely my point in my original post. I've spoken to my friend since I put this up, he and his son have been swamped with work and the rain in our area Saturday didn't bode well for outside photos. Johnny will email me photos and a little back story on his relationship with Joe Pass and his impressions on how the guitar sounds since the modification (remember it is totally reversible). Meanwhile it's been interesting reading all of your opinions.
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Mike, I'm sorry I missed the point.
I tend to drive topics off cliffs sometimes. Gotta stop that.
Looking at the amount of space in between the existing Pickup and the base of the fretboard Im surprised there is enough room there for a floater.
I'm dying to hear the story about Joe.
Joe D.
Btw.. The rain here NJ was not fun. Playing in it (even under a canopy) was worse..
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it would be interesting to hear that guitar Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
demo'd
first the stock pu then the floater
to hear the difference ....
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I'm glad to see some slightly more open minded reactions for a change here. Johnny is on Long Island, and he's roughly my age (mid to late 60s). He knew and (self described) go fer and flunky for Joe any time he was in the area, took lessons from Joe (not Joe Montana, Joe Pass). He's not a poster, he works, plays, practices. He has his physical limitations like I do, so we're simpatico in our affirmaties.
He'll get around to writing me and his son (with a way better cell phone camera and eye for photo ops) will supply pics. He even said he'll make a YouTube video of him playing.
So in more detail about what he did: he made a template of the pick guard and sent it to a kid I know in Chicago who makes all kinds of pick guards as a side interest to his night job, it is in ebony, no binding, just nice clean ebony. So Johnny took the copy pick guard, a set of Schatten stealth volume/tone pots and a Bartolini 5J and his tech mounted the pickup to the neck, the Schattens to the pick guard, wired the Bartolini to the pick guard with a mini 3 way switch to the guard so Johnny can select a) Floater, b) Floater and Super 58 (with it's body mounted controls) or c) Super 58 alone.
So the Bartolini almost blends in with the dark burst portion between the end of the fingerboard and the Super 58 and Johnny says it's great having the additional tonal flexibility of this setup... The Joe Pass really is a copy of a D'Aquisto made by Ibanez. It's so gorgeous and so perfect in so many ways, it just needs a little beef to the tone FOR MANY EARS, not EVERYONE...
So please chill a bit and sooner or later Johnny and his son will deliver and I can beef up my contribution to this thread. Thanks for being so patient waiting. Probably should have waited until I had the photos, a video of him playing it and so on. But having been a GB10 and Ibanez Johnny Smith owner for ages I know how I appreciated the tone those laminate spruce tops delivered with floaters....
Mike
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Mike,
If someone needs an additional pickup for a different tone on the JP-20, that is fine. I am glad that it worked for your friend. Bartolini makes a great pickup.
These guitars have been put down by many who have never actually played one. My point is that if they are set up properly through the right amp, they sound great just the way they are.
I dig mine, and she is bone stock. And she will stay that way as long as my fingers get to caress her.
Cheers,
Marc
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Nice... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I personally would not modify a JP-20. It isn't going to sound beefy. That's not in the cards for that particular design. However, the JP-20 is a delightful guitar in its own right. It plays like a dream. It has one of the best necks ever made, IMO.
Like others, I don't think that pickup placement is going to make that much of a difference on this instrument. It is the sum total of this guitar's design that is yielding the brightness that everyone describes. However, brightness isn't all that bad. I used to use Gretsch Filtertron-equipped guitars for jazz. They are brighter than Gibson guitars. It never entered my mind that the tone was a hindrance. Ballads sounded great on those Gretsches.
Anyone owning a JP-20 is simply lucky to possess a great jazz guitar, IMO.
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Greentone, that was spot on...
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One quick, cheap, non-invasive way to scratch that itch would be to 1) go up a gauge with strings; 2) tune the instrument down 1/2 step; and 3) capo at the first fret, effectively moving the fretboard closer to the pickup. The side effect of having the position markers in the wrong places could be considered a bonus stimulant to the "little grey cells".
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Originally Posted by Greentone
Your spot on. I never had an issue with the tone at all. Its actually the only guitar I have had that I actually regret selling and I've had some amazing stuff. Play it with 13's cut out the mid's turn up the bass a bit and you have no problems at all.
What you do get is the best neck your likely to play, as you mentioned.
I will be buying another one, so everyone YES! they sound awful :-)
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