Charlie Christian pickups and other CC style pups... pics please!

[wzpgsr]

This is my chambered mahogany Jazzcaster-style guitar built by Corwin Guitar Co. in Lawrence, KS. The neck pickup is a Vintage Vibe CC-Rider with Alnico IIIs. I also asked Pete at VV for a matching P90-style in humbucker size for the bridge.

[pubylakeg]

Actually this model was own by Alvino Rey.

In case you need a translation, we are a couple of guys speaking French around here...

Mottola's L5 and Alvino Rey's ES-250 (different guitars) are both pictured on the site.

I'm not sure if the stated information on the site regarding Mottola's L5 is correct. IIRC the L5 built for Charlie Christian (and subsequently obtained by Mottola) was a blonde model.

[Eddie Lang]

I was thinking of swapping the humbucker in my Eastman AR503 with one of Pete Biltoft's Vintage Vibe HCC but I put that in hold for now. instead, I've been having fun with this newly arrived guitar.

[Hammertone]

What's this about bar pickups?

[Fred Archtop]

That's a serious topic for me, CC pickup achtops!

I fell in love with these instruments a few decades ago. It was in 1987 and I went to Paris for a first serious achtop (ie Gibson) acquisition. I came across a 175 CC from 1980. She was very afordable as compared to other vintage models and the sound was nice.

[neatomic]

the great so-cal craftsman tk smith also builds cc and bar styles



cheers

[rpguitar]

Flats or rounds with your CCs, guys?

[pubylakeg]

Flats or rounds with your CCs, guys?

Galli flats, 13-56. Probably not the most traditional choice, but I really like them.

[Eddie Lang]

Flats or rounds with your CCs, guys?

Sister 3 still has the D'A that it came with. I will change soon to either TI Swing (flats) or Bebop (rounds), not sure which ones yet. I also have a set of Newtone Archtop (rounds) that could end up on it.

[Eddie Lang]

Galli flats, 13-56. Probably not the most traditional choice, but I really like them.

Never heard of them. Thanks! I may try some the next time I need to order sets. I wouldn't mind finding a cheaper alternative that I'd like as much as TIs.

[wintermoon]

Flats or rounds with your CCs, guys?

I don't use flats on anything, they sound flat to me, but I know they're popular around here.
I don't roll off the tone knob to zero like a lot of cats do either, I like a little sparkle in my sound.

[pubylakeg]

Never heard of them. Thanks! I may try some the next time I need to order sets. I wouldn't mind finding a cheaper alternative that I'd like as much as TIs.

I don't use flats on anything, they sound flat to me, but I know they're popular around here.
I don't roll off the tone knob to zero like a lot of cats do either, I like a little sparkle in my sound.

Interesting points. Galli may well be for you. They have a brighter sound for a flat wound string. They're relatively high tension, and they last for ages. With my CC pickup, I'm generally aiming for a tone reminiscent of Rene Thomas, rather than Charlie Christian. The Gali's seem to have a sort of metallic "chime" on the start of the note that I find quite fitting for this.

I'm with wintermoon in favouring guitar tones towards the brighter end on the spectrum. I tend to back the guitar volume somewhere between 7/10 & 8/10, but I do back off the tone just to a point to remove a degree of "snap" which I hear in the unwound strings. I have to say that I find players using brighter tones to be far more engaging, and to hold my attention to a much greater level. Tbh, I think that's one reason why i tend to favour listening to players from the 40's/50s than certain more contemporary stylists.


Ps, Richard, congratulations on that stunning guitar.

[rpguitar]

I also prefer rounds but right now, Sister 1 has TI Swings on her. I think it's the 13 set but with a 12 and 16 on top from a D'Addario XL set.

With the flats, the slightly thuddy bass somehow causes the body to take up the vibration and ring out in a rather woody fashion. But they probably won't stay forever (I never keep flats on anything). I was just curious what others do. I'm not going for a CC sound, just a lively, dynamic one.

[campusfive]

I'm not going for a CC sound, just a lively, dynamic one.

Forgive the pedantic outburst, rp, because you're not going for that sound anyway, but to be clear:

They didn't have flats until the early 50's, so CC wouldn't have used flats anyway.
Frankly, until 1942 there's no mention of anything but the standard round-wound monel sets that were also used on acoustics, so that's what CC would have used. Although there is anecdotal evidence Charlie used Black Diamond brand, which would also have been monel.

/End Rant.

[Eddie Lang]

Forgive the pedantic outburst, rp, because you're not going for that sound anyway, but to be clear:

They didn't have flats until the early 50's, so CC wouldn't have used flats anyway.
Frankly, until 1942 there's no mention of anything but the standard round-wound monel sets that were also used on acoustics, so that's what CC would have used. Although there is anecdotal evidence Charlie used Black Diamond brand, which would also have been monel.

/End Rant.

I bought a 1953 L-4C a few years ago and in the case there was a box of Mapes strings from that period. Inside the box, there was a Sepam (Mapes spelled backward) cloth to "polish" the strings. It's really just emery/sandpaper. I assume that this made the strings flatter.

Does anyone know how early this practice started? I imagine it stopped after flat wound strings beacame available.

[wintermoon]

the idea behind the sepam is to 'polish' as it states, [clean] the strings, not sand them flat.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Heh, I didn't notice sepam was Mapes backwards. I am a toidi.

[Eddie Lang]

the idea behind the sepam is to 'polish' as it states, [clean] the strings, not sand them flat.

Too bad, it could have been part of a great story...


And back to CC style pickups, look what I saw today when I visited my luthier.



There was a 1936 L-4 in a bad need of TLC. It was brought there by the grand-children (now adults) of the original owner who hasn't played it in years. They sorta "stole" it in order to have it fixed as a surprise Christmas gift for him.

So there is this really old bar pickup that's on a metal plate, and two brakets (one is missing in the photo) to hold it in place (no screw holes in the top). It still has the old wire, but somebody at some point must have changed the output to a 1/4 plug. It really looks "period" but does not have the two big cobalt magnets. Could this have been a lap steel guitar pickup?

I'll probably go back in a few days and I'll try to get more picks of the pup.

[stringmaster]

Not meaning this as good or bad, but I think it's flawed to call anything with a blade a CC pickup--IMO same as calling anything with pole pieces a P90--seems that anything with a blade gets lumped into that category, yet the designs can be quite different--perhaps some try to emulate the sound of an original long magnet CC pickup, and other's don't--for example the blade pickups on my Asher solid body were built by Vintage Vibe and designed to sound like an old Teisco pickup. So if I were looking for a custom pickup to fit a certain route and I was after a sound more like an original CC--I'd be asking lots of questions and looking at lots of options.

[Fred Archtop]

Hello fellow achtopers,

There was a request on another thread for pics of CC equipped guitars. There must be other fans of CC pups here. Got pictures of yours?

Here are pics of my 1946 Gibson ES 300 equipped with a Jason Lollar CC pickup. It's a wonderful guitar, great sound and great playability.

I have to say that I'm not the guy who ripped off the original P90 PU. I wouldn't have done this myself to an all original ES 300. When I bought the guitar the P90 was already gone. At that time, it was equipped with a CC PU coming from a Gibson lapsteel guitar from the 30's. However this 30's CC PU had an unpleasant muddy sound with no particular definition in the bass & med-bass range. So I decided to give a try to a JL CC PU and I must say that I haven't been desappointed.

The format of the JL CC fits perfectly well to the P90 hole, so no hardware transformation required and this was also a reason for the choice of the JL CC PU.



Cheers.

[Grez]

Interesting! Would you say that the VV HCC gets muddier than the Lollar CC?

I like the thicker low end, although I do have to adjust the amp some to accommodate it. I have had others make the muddier comment so it's an opinion that's out there about the pickups but again, I think that if you plug into an amp with say your normal settings, the first impression might be, too much bottom, but with some knob twiddling, there are good sounds to be had.

[Jabberwocky]

This guitar came out of Dave's Guitars shop and was sold as new old stock by DG for a sum that I shall keep privy to meself. (Looking back, I wish I had bought it. I paid not much lower for a 2002 Super 400CC ASB than what DG was asking for the Super 400CCN.) It and the Super 400 Thinline Switchmaster Natural (also on ebay by the same offeror) were traded to Tom Gould of Great Guitars. DG took a 2002 ES5N Switchmaster with a detached oval label in trade that is in my possession today.

(That leather armchair looks familiar and appears in one of Marty Grass's Heritage Golden/Super Eagle photos, I'm rather sure.)

[Eddie Lang]

So I was back at the shop yesterday and took a few more shots of the pickup.

[Eddie Lang]

[Fred Archtop]

Great pics Eddie !

Cheers.