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I have a carved guitar that isn't particularly high-dollar (Yunzhi) but I really love playing it acoustically and it's a great player overall. I added a floating pickup but don't love the plugged in sound. I'm considering cutting a hole for a PAF-type pickup.
For those who have cut into a carved top, did you lose much volume or acoustic tone? The Eastmans I've owned with a set-in pickup still sounded fantastic unplugged so I'm not too worried but I'd love to get some first hand before and after feelings. TIA.
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05-08-2015 11:36 AM
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I've never done it, and wouldn't do it. There are a number of floating humbuckers that you can add that won't require this kind of abuse, and will preserve the existing acoustic tone. Kent Armstrong makes a floating "PAF" that might work out for you.
BUT, if you're determined to do it, you'll have to see how your guitar is braced. If it has X bracing, which is likely on an acoustic archtop, you may not have the space for a humbucker. If it's A braced, it's more likely you will.
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Thanks. X-braced. I'm not worried about doing the mod. Already have a floater on it.
Originally Posted by kafka
I'm curious how much volume or tone you lose, if any.
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I've done it. Very little. Much more usable guitar as a result.
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Thanks! Do you have photos or tips / tricks / findings? Originally Posted by Franz 1997
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Check out the Ken Armstrong floating PAF. It is a full size 12 pole piece humbucker. I was in your boat with my Eastman trying every pickup under the sun because I found out that I prefered the sound of a set in pickup. It is not exactly the same, mind you, but it sounds damn good and a lot less like a floating mini humbucker.
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Go for it! Dimarzio X2N in the middle position, right inbetween where a neck and a bridge pickup would go!
I installed the pickup in this '47 L-7N, but the holes were already there. The guitar sounds great acoustically and electrically.
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Just curious where you're going with this. A built in may reduce feedback by constraining resonance, but in what way should a built in pup sound better than a floater plugged in? You got rid of the pup it came with, right?
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Thanks. I do like the Armstrong PAF-0 in the ebonized case I've tried on other guitars and I should have probably gotten one but I found a Benedetto floater cheap and got that instead. I'm not loving it. The 12-pole may be OK but I'd rather not put more money into the project. I already have the bits to drop on a PAF. Originally Posted by rio
Yeah I replaced the Wilkinson with a Benedetto. It's OK. It feels really forward in the mids, and I normally love mini-humbuckers (my Sorrento has them) so I'm wanting to use stuff I already have: either of the 2 PAF-style pickups that I know I like. Part of it is also I was really interested in the Peerless Lee (or Leela) which is a carved top and set in pickup but in the interest of not acquiring more stuff or spending more money I thought this would be a fun experiment. Originally Posted by Spook410
This is the guitar BTW. It's very big bright and open...and loud (D'Aquisto / Melo copy w/ x-bracing and quad ports).
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I don't think you quite understand what kafka is warning you about. The fact that you have a floater on it has nothing to do with the perils of cutting a hole in the top. Originally Posted by spiral
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ie you might cut the brace by accident Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
Originally Posted by pingu
Thanks. No: I understand. I was responding to two separate thoughts: beware the bracing and you can add a floater (which I had already). Glad to hear about your first hand experiences.
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The thing you must be absolutely sure about is the potential impact of the pickup hole on the bracing. Get this wrong, and it's disaster. It's possible in both x- and parallel braced configurations, if there's enough room, but you have to know where the bracing runs under the top, which involves detailed inspection with a mirror on a stick, and a torch. Originally Posted by spiral
I have done this on an L4C ( which was already hacked for P90s) and an X braced 17" guitar, which had a ( for me) very unsatisfactory floater. In any event, I prefer the ''built-in'' tone.
For full disclosure, I did the second guitar more than 10 years ago..not sure I would today, now that there are better floaters available. And of course you have to work with extreme care, with the top masked and protected, and with an accurately measured tracing of the new rout fixed in place on the top. It's not a case of hacking away with the jigsaw, more carefully eating away with a dremel or maybe hand saw.
But, I can confirm, the tone and volume were barely affected.
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I've never been in favor of altering a hand crafted object, especially a stringed musical instrument, with the intention of turning it into something it wasn't intended to be, when it was first crafted.
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Advice: sell the acoustic guitar and buy an electric archtop. Two people will be happy.
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If you don't like the sound of a floating HB, you probably won't like the sound of a routed one.
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Spiral, Kent Armstrong 12-pole floating PAF or if you like Ron Eschete's tone, an active EMG 91 floating pickup (gulp!). Much less invasive. I like the Johnny Smith-type floating humbucking pickup such as that one made by Jason Lollar.
Don't know what floating pickup you have on there currently.
That is a nice looking D'Aquisto/Melo-copy. I'd be leery about hacking into the top even though you said it was not worth much.
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Thanks. Dremel was the plan: cut the top only. It has a side port so I can shine a light through the top wood and see how it will or will no clear the braces. Originally Posted by Franz 1997
Noted and I generally agree. I "intended it" originally by having it made and could have asked that they add the set in pickup but you can only go from floater to set in, not backwards. If I had, they would take the same guitar and cut a hole in it. Originally Posted by Patrick2
$900 if you are interested. Is there a similarly spec'd instrument like this for that price? The Leela is $2k. I can't think of anything else carved with a 25"+ scale & beefy neck for $1k or less. Originally Posted by Greentone
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I hate to be the contrarian here but if you are happy with all other aspects of the guitars e.g. playability etc. then install a set neck pickup. I won't belabor the bracing concerns or location as it's been addressed. This is by your own admission a $900.00 guitar. No disrespect to Yunzhi intended but it will most likely never be worth much more or at least it will take a fair amount of time to be worth much more. Seeing how you don't want to spend the money for a KA floater, I'd say do what you like and enjoy the guitar.
Last edited by rob taft; 05-08-2015 at 07:20 PM.
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You can easily find out if there's room for the humbucker. Get some low tack masking tape (you don't want to leave any tape on a finish for terribly long as it can eat the finish) tape over where you want the pickup to go. Get some rare earth magnets and put some thin felt on the finish side of one of them. Get one of the magnets inside the braces (you'll have to do this part with guitar upside down) and if you have magnets strong enough they will attract each other through the top. Now you can run the magnets along the braces to get a rough idea where they are. When you get to your masking tape you can pencil in a line giving the rough location of the braces. Hope that makes sense, if not I'll try and explain a different way.
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We have to put things in perspective here, the OP is not talking about routing the top of any vintage instrument; it is a Yunzhi guitar and if he can clear the braces and do it carefully, no harm will be done.
There is a reason some people prefer the tone of a set in humbucker to a floater otherwise Wes, Jim, Joe, Barney, Tal, both Pats and so many others would all have played solid carved with floaters...Last edited by vinlander; 05-09-2015 at 06:11 AM. Reason: typo
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It's a commodity guitar- no offense intended- not a sacred relic. Finding a way to map out the brace locations to see if there is room for the pickup is the main thing.
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Agreed. If it makes the instrument more useful, you're not destroying history. If OP does a neat job, all will be forgiven. Originally Posted by vinlander
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>> For those who have cut into a carved top, did you lose much volume or acoustic tone? <<
It may sound surprising, but usually very little loss of acoustic volume or tone (probably not perceivable at all) has to be expected by adding a PAF-type humbucker. Of course, it's different with adding an original CC pick-up...
>> This is the guitar BTW. It's very big bright and open...and loud (D'Aquisto / Melo copy w/ x-bracing and quad ports). <<
First of all, I'd think about which exact factors of the current sound of the guitar you do not like - better define your personal sound goals before cutting in a guitar! It's a myth that a mediocre/decent sounding archtop guitar can be transformed into a top electric-acoustic instrument just by adding some electric components.
An archtop guitar with comparably large openings like this (sound holes and ports) will more often than not sound very bright and open by construction. If, for example, you were generally looking after a darker or more restrained "classic" tone and going to add a set PAF-type pick-up in such a guitar design... well, you'd certainly get your PAF-like share, but it would still be mixed with the very bright and open acoustic emission of the guitar. Ok, you could dial in something electrically, but this would bring the whole guitar closer to electric (i.e., not electric-acoustic) sound.
For determining if there's enough place on the (solid spruce) soundboard for the pick-up hole without putting the intactness of the tonebars at risk (a clear no-go), two simple methods - by now not well-known in the guitar world - are recommended that are more precise than the using of magnets. By combining both of these methods, repair work on loosened tonebars is enabled on archtop guitars featuring slim f-holes without the hassle and the imprecision of using sprawling, lean cello repair clamps. The OP's guitar has huge sound holes and additional access through sound ports, hence no problem with space requirements has to be expected.
A final word on valuable, historic, rare or otherwise irreplaceable guitars may be allowed, on guitars where you have to expect to burn later in hell if performing a major soundboard surgery without necessity: the value or the players' appreciation or the historic assessment of a particular model or brand name may shift massively over the decades. Contemporary violin makers consider that some of the world's currently most appreciated violins or cellos carved out a relatively unnoticed existence during their first 50, 100 or even more years! There's no reason to think that the world of handmade master guitars should develop completely different.
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also consider the pickup placement. When I cut the top on my emp reg I had to cut off the last inch of the braces. That was years ago. Still stable and I sleep very well at night. If had to cut the braces closer to the middle I would be more concerned Originally Posted by vinlander
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