Scale Length

**DanielleOM** · 05-02-2015, 09:26 AM

I would like to see a good discussion about scale length. I am curious what people actively play here when it comes to scale length.

Have you settled on one particular scale length or do you actively use guitars with different scale lengths?

Danielle

**Alder Statesman** · 05-02-2015, 09:32 AM

I have always preferred longer scale lengths. They are usually easier to tune and much easier to play harmonics on. I also like beefy necks and the two often go hand in hand.

**Longways to Go** · 05-02-2015, 09:51 AM

I have both but I prefer the short scale. Not a big deal to me either way, but lower string tension makes for a little easier playing & a little softer tone.

**fumblefingers** · 05-02-2015, 10:38 AM

short is what? 24.75?

long is what 25.5?

(and really short is Byrdland.)

Johnny Smith demanded 25.0, and that has taken root with many archtop luthiers. i believe that PRS uses it on their electrics as well.

i play 25.5 but if i commission a custom guitar again it will probably be 25.25.

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-02-2015, 11:07 AM

Prefer the short scale. Much easier to play jazz chords. I have a tele now too, and I love it, but it just doesnt inspire me to play jazz, and partly because of the scale length. I have a small hands, maybe thats why. Short scale, small radius, narrow nut- a perfect neck!

**jazzbow** · 05-02-2015, 11:31 AM

I had a Le Voi Selmer small hole guitar which is just over 26.38" scale and it was as loud as a cannon. Unfortunately it would cramp my hand and as I have some ulnar nerve issues this guitar scale would bring on numbness in my fretting hand little finger!

So reluctantly I sold it.

I had a Tanglewood hollow bodied Triggs guitar which was 24.75" scale. I love the lower tension of the strings but any extended chords passed the 8th fret and my plunger like fingertips made it hard to form these shapes (m7b5's).
I tried using the 'Thumb over fingerboard' grips but that would be frustrating when mixing different shapes and I would get annoyed when playing on the fly from song books.

I sold my Tanglewood Triggs.

I have settled on 25.5" scale after buying a Jazzmaster and making my Jazz Tele. A much better scale providing I position the guitars just so and I'm not over bending my wrist. I am in the process of getting an Epiphone Emperor Regent; also a 25.5" scale.

Now I'm happy.

**Jim Soloway** · 05-02-2015, 11:38 AM

I spent about 15 years of my life experimenting with scale length. I dabbled with for years before that and playing 7-string for a number of years made it a genuine obsession. My general sense is that at least for me, longer is better as long as I can actually reach everything. I had a lot of years playing a 27" instrument and had no problem with it. The longer scale length provides much better intonation, a faster attack, more acoustic volume and better note separation, all things that work for me. I play 25.5 now, mostly because that's longest scale length that's most readily available and ultimately I gave in to convenience and convention.

**vintagelove** · 05-02-2015, 11:43 AM

I always wondered why strats and telecasters played like crap compared to other guitars I had. I think I just hate 25.5

That being said I would love to take a Carvin H2 for a spin one day to see if it is just fender necks not being great (as carvin necks play effortlessly).

**vinlander** · 05-02-2015, 01:14 PM

I would probably not like anything smaller than 24.75 after being a long time Les Paul player.
The 25.5 scale Regent really grew on me lately and now being a newly TI converted guy, it never played so easily even for the extended chords.

**rob taft** · 05-02-2015, 03:30 PM

I'm mostly a fingerstyle player these days and the guitars I play most often are all 25 1/2" for the same reasons Jim Soloway addressed above.

**LtKojak** · 05-02-2015, 04:04 PM

I've learned to play on a 25.5"-scaled classical nylon string guitar.

I've been a 24.75" player since I bought my first electric guitar, a '68 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty Fretless Wonder reissue. I own six 24.75", a 25" and four 25.5" electrics, plus two 25.5" acoustics, which one is a classical with a Fishman and nylon strings.

Everything I play, I do it better on the 24.75" ones, but sounds better on the 25.75"s.

That's just the way it is...

**jzucker** · 05-02-2015, 04:12 PM

24.75 or 25.5. I have owned a few 27" scale guitars and found it cumbersome to play the closed voicings I like in the lower positions on it. I have small hands but have no problem going back and forth between 24.75 and 25.5 instruments. It's a non issue.

I also prefer medium necks. Not a fan of the big necks because I like to use my thumb for complex voicings.

I prefer the sound of 24.75" for most single line playing because it just sounds looser and warmer to me but I also like the 25.5. To me the extra articulation on the longer scale doesn't play well with the sound I hear in my head most of the time although I like it for block chords and solo guitar.

**Woody Sound** · 05-02-2015, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Longways to Go

I have both but I prefer the short scale. Not a big deal to me either way, but lower string tension makes for a little easier playing & a little softer tone.

+1

**fonkyfingers** · 05-02-2015, 04:42 PM

665mm (26.18") - custom made, and a Tele. On the long scale guitar I have to pick closer to the neck to get a "warm" sound unless I tune it down a half step which is the equivalent of having a string tension like a 24,75" scale, iirc. Works well with horn players when songs come in Eb ( open "Eb" string...)
I have short hands with big fingers but I can stretch them quite well ( being a bass player...).
24,75" gives me a hard time around 10th fret and below.

**JSanta** · 05-02-2015, 05:08 PM

I prefer 25" or 25.5" My Eastman is 25", and my two solidbody guitars are 25" and 25.5", with another 25.5" coming at the end of the month.

I do have a Gypsy Jazz guitar with the 26.5" scale, and if anything it's made playing other guitars easier. That guitar makes you work, but I can't play it for more than an hour or so before I start to feel it in my left hand.

**fumblefingers** · 05-02-2015, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

I always wondered why strats and telecasters played like crap compared to other guitars I had. I think I just hate 25.5

That being said I would love to take a Carvin H2 for a spin one day to see if it is just fender necks not being great (as carvin necks play effortlessly).

Do you bend strings or are you referring to jazz playing? In other words why do you hate 25.5?

**iim7V7IM7** · 05-02-2015, 06:12 PM

ELECTRICS:

Archtop = 25"
Semi-Hollowbody = 25"
Solid Body = 25-1/2"

ACOUSTICS:

Flat Tops = 24.9", 25"-25-1/4"
Gypsy = 25-1/2"
Classical = 645 mm

**jzucker** · 05-02-2015, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

I always wondered why strats and telecasters played like crap compared to other guitars I had. I think I just hate 25.5

That being said I would love to take a Carvin H2 for a spin one day to see if it is just fender necks not being great (as carvin necks play effortlessly).

strats and teles playing like crap is not the fault of the 25.5" scale. My heritage eagle is 25.5 and plays like a dream. The reason your strats and teles play like crap is likely the poor fretwork, vintage radius and neck not being straight.

**marcwhy** · 05-02-2015, 07:28 PM

My Novax fanned-fret guitars are 25-27", which gets a big, clear sound! My "normal" guitars are usually 25".

Here's a transcription of a cool technical lecture Ralph Novak presented: Novax Guitars: Information: Technical Lecture

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 05-02-2015, 08:48 PM

Back before the Internet made us all so smart, I was playing an ES-335 and thought I should have a big jazz box so I bought an L-5. I liked something about it and only figured out years later it was the 25 1/2" scale. Now I mainly play my ASAT (T-style), and I'm sticking with 25 1/2".

**vintagelove** · 05-02-2015, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

Do you bend strings or are you referring to jazz playing? In other words why do you hate 25.5?

My non jazz playing is closer to "fretboard gymnastics" than SRV licks (not that I don't like SRV, I just can't stand the 10,000 guys that ripped off his licks and never went beyond those 7 [or so] notes). I am a lot more likely to play a classically influenced (or at the time I had the strat in particular) an actual classical transcription. I also play blues and things along those lines as well.

Basically my "demands" of a guitar is I should have action so low I can look at a note and it plays, while at the same time bending at least a min3rd without fretting out. Every Carvin I have had has done this with ease. Though I don't bend on my jazz guitars, I can set the action lower and faster than I can on any Fender style I have played.

IME, Strats and teles can't do it (though somehow Yngwie manages to do it on a strat, but I suspect heavy work is done on the neck to meet his standards). Though as Mr. Zucker pointed out, not all necks are created equal. Like I said I would really like to take a Carvin 25.5 out for a spin as I know their necks are immaculate. That would really set me straight on if scale length was the culprit.

**vintagelove** · 05-02-2015, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

strats and teles playing like crap is not the fault of the 25.5" scale. My heritage eagle is 25.5 and plays like a dream. The reason your strats and teles play like crap is likely the poor fretwork, vintage radius and neck not being straight.

Thanks for the reply, don't forget those vintage frets.... I can't begin to tell you how much I hate them!!!

Did you ever try the Carvin h2? I know you had a Fatboy that you were not thrilled with, just curious. Thanks again.

**Jim Soloway** · 05-02-2015, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

My non jazz playing is closer to "fretboard gymnastics" than SRV licks (not that I don't like SRV, I just can't stand the 10,000 guys that ripped off his licks and never went beyond those 7 [or so] notes). I am a lot more likely to play a classically influenced (or at the time I had the strat in particular) an actual classical transcription. I also play blues and things along those lines as well.

Basically my "demands" of a guitar is I should have action so low I can look at a note and it plays, while at the same time bending at least a min3rd without fretting out. Every Carvin I have had has done this with ease. Though I don't bend on my jazz guitars, I can set the action lower and faster than I can on any Fender style I have played.

IME, Strats and teles can't do it (though somehow Yngwie manages to do it on a strat, but I suspect heavy work is done on the neck to meet his standards). Though as Mr. Zucker pointed out, not all necks are created equal. Like I said I would really like to take a Carvin 25.5 out for a spin as I know their necks are immaculate. That would really set me straight on if scale length was the culprit.

What you're describing is much more a function of the fret size and fingerboard radius than neck construction or scale length. The sort of playing you're talking about is traditionally done with a relatively flat fingerboard and large frets (a common setup from Carvin, Ibanez and others). The most typical Fender setups use a rounder radius with smaller frets.

**vintagelove** · 05-02-2015, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

What you're describing is much more a function of the fret size and fingerboard radius than neck construction or scale length. The sort of playing you're talking about is traditionally done with a relatively flat fingerboard and large frets (a common setup from Carvin, Ibanez and others). The most typical Fender setups use a rounder radius with smaller frets.

I had a tele made with big frets and a flat board, it just seemed "slow". Now I don't want to open the unholiest if internet arguments (the tonewood debate!!!), but I suspect it could be the wood selection. It was an all rosewood neck. We didn't get along...

I appreciate the comment though.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-02-2015, 09:57 PM

Teles and strats and Fender guitars in general (but especially teles, no trem to deal with)are more tweakable than anything...you just gotta know how to do it.

I don't measure "action," I adjust a guitar till it feels right...right now i can slide a 1.5mm pick under the strings at the 12th fret and it will stick there.

But we're talking scale length...i dunno...a good guitar is a good guutar...i'm comfortable on fender and gibson scales...i don't buy the whole "stretches are easier" on a gibson scale...it only makes a dif at the 1st fret.