Gibson ES-335 vs Moffa Dark Lorraine

**Innerurge1** · 04-26-2009, 10:41 PM

Hi everyone.
I am interested in purchasing a new guitar. I would like either a 60's 335 or a new moffa Dark Lorraine. I have found a 335 in near mint condition from 65' for $4500. On the other hand, the dark lorraine is completely custom and is believe it or not less at around 3500-4000 depending on what options i choose... i could use some help making my decision.. if anyone has used a moffa feedback would be awesome.. thanks everyone

**Innerurge1** · 04-28-2009, 03:57 PM

Also, if anyone else has any other suggestions please let me know... thanks

**novio8** · 05-09-2009, 01:52 AM

There are so many good Archtop Guitars and I don't see no reason to buy 335. I owned one and sold it. Before buying, go around and check them, dont read listen. You can buy second hand no problem, I think it is even better. For 4000 you can get 2 good Archtop guitars, maybe with different sound

**NSJ** · 05-09-2009, 07:28 AM

is apparently in the ball park, but only just, i.e., in the low range:

1965 - 1969 > $4 500 to $9 000 ( prices vary according to specs & color )

Info taken from: Vintage Gibson Guitars: Gibson Es-335

I would definitely have a thorough inspection of it before you think about buying it. And don't take the dealer's word for it! That's a lot of $ to be throwing around. You can get a very nice guitar for that price (e.g., a Sadowsky semi hollow costs about $900 LESS).

**fast1** · 05-09-2009, 07:32 AM

yea check before purchasing... just curious why do you want a 335 with that budget you got?

**Innerurge1** · 05-09-2009, 12:06 PM

I currently own a 70's 335 and i want to sell it to get a 60s one because after recently playing one of my friends 68 one i have realized that the 60s gibsons are in my opinion WAY better than anything made '70 on by gibson. I dont want a complete archtop because i do play some rock music as well. I like the 335 because i feel i can play almost any style of music... the dark lorraine is semi hollow also but im still not sure just because it seems like most of his guitars are directed to pretty straight ahead jazz guys (except rosenwinkel)

**Abaddon2005** · 05-09-2009, 12:06 PM

i just tested two different es-335's yesterday. the satin finish one and one with a flametop. they didn't impress me at all. i've spoken with Nico Moffa a few times, he was very nice, knowledgable and insightful. i haven't had the chance to play one of his instruments, but to me it would be a no-brainer. he has some beautiful pictures on his site, and they look extremely well built.

if you want to play rock on it he might be willing to put a sustain block through the middle. you should e-mail him, he's very helpful.

**Innerurge1** · 05-09-2009, 12:12 PM

abaddon, i totally agree with you about the new 335s... I could test out one of the 335s so i think i might go and test it out... if i like it then i will get it if not, then there will be some long hard thinking... Im just worried about spending 4000 on a guitar that ive never played and im also worried about if i dont like it, that i dont know anyone who would buy a guitar for 4000 ... unless it were a gibson or big brand name....

**Abaddon2005** · 05-10-2009, 06:24 AM

i absolutely know what you mean. i personally have been (or still am actually) in the same boat as you. it's just an incredible amount of money really, and it's only logical you'll want to make the best choice you can. i was/am interested in a moffa myself, nico was incredible helpful when i would e-mail him with the questions i've had. i also think his guitars look great on his website.

that said, i've played on a semi-hollow guitar handmade by Chris Larkin and it had a quaky sound on its neck pick-up, and the electronics were noisy. this was a very expensive instrument, and it gave me a wake-up call that not every handmade or even less, simply expensive (2k+) guitar is worth it at all.

the only reason why i myself am losing interest in the moffa is because i played a benedetto i fell for, it simply had everything i could want in a guitar, minus a somewhat poor accesibility to the upper register.

if i were you i would most definitely test it out. every time i go test out guitars i get new insights. you might also want to look into les pauls. they can obviously get great rock tones and if you look around some have excellent jazz tones in them as well, might look at customs or goldtops with p90's in them. i tested a custom out A/B to the 335's, and it blew them out of the water to my surprise.

**kelmad2006** · 07-05-2009, 04:25 PM

Hi Innerurge1,

I can assure you that Mr. Moffa can build you exactly what you want. If y ou play some rock music you may want to consider the sweet Lorraine. Now this is just a suggestion. I represent Moffa guitars here in the US and would be happy to work with you on getting you exactly what you need.

Please feel free to email or pm me and we can do an online chat. Actually anyone in this thread who is interested for that matter.

I love gibson's personally if you are looking for an off the rack guitar that can fit various styles of music. But if you want to get something that is totally custom made to fit your needs I would definitely consider having mr. moffa build you something.

Best,

**lpdeluxe** · 07-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Here's a slightly contrarian view: why pay a premium for a "vintage" [the quotation marks indicate heavy irony] when you can buy a more recent used one for significantly less? I have a 2000 335 from the Memphis plant that I got last year for $1750. It is my main guitar, and I can't imagine that any "vintage" example would offer more than incremental improvement.

Vintage has become a catch all term that means "not measurably different, but with more snob appeal."

**kelmad2006** · 07-05-2009, 05:56 PM

Well said LP. I totally agree. Even though there are great "vintage" instruments worth every penny that is being asked for them, the term is used rather loosely as a marketing tool.

I'm a big fan of custom made instruments and no matter what your budget is you can find something within your budget, it's just a matter of doing your research, communicating with the builder/dealer.

But if you are looking for off the shelf just try out as many guitars until you find one that suits your needs and budget.

**Teobeck** · 07-05-2009, 07:53 PM

When a dude has his heart set on a particular axe no one should/can dissuade him. I found after years of collecting as a player that the big rush was possession of beautiful art, as they all played well. I'm now down to a Hamer Newport Pro Custom (spruce top), Gibson ES-339 (maple) and Samick RL-4 (all mahogany) semi hollow HB guitars, as they are lighter 7 lb units, but have the old ES-335 type vibe. I have about 5K invested in all 3. I have always preferred ES-335 sound over all others, even tho' ES are all made of maple laminate. How to explain that? It's not a matter of logic.

**Innerurge1** · 07-05-2009, 10:52 PM

hey all... I actually got to test out a 67 335 and i love it... Im sure Moffas are great but the Gibson is perfect for my sound

**lpdeluxe** · 07-06-2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Teobeck

I have always preferred ES-335 sound over all others, even tho' ES are all made of maple laminate. How to explain that? It's not a matter of logic.

Nothing to explain. Gibson used the appropriate material for the job.

Back in my college days, I got into road racing motorcycles. It was long ago enough that everyone built their own machines. One rampant disease was the desire for trick unobtanium parts that no one else had (Teflon-coated platinum wire for the ignition, for example). Oddly enough, the guys who concentrated on making robust racers, and didn't try to fabricate titanium when bent aluminum would do, rode circles around the "true believers."

There's nothing special about solid figured maple for what is in essence, a solid body guitar. It's more expensive, and appeals to our acquisitive instincts, but Gibson knew they could make a great guitar with laminates, and so they did.

**derek** · 07-06-2009, 11:24 AM

I guy on The Gear Page recently posted a pics of a couple different Moffa Dark Loraines. They look great. Here is a link.

Moffa Guitars coming....!! - The Gear Page

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-06-2009, 01:56 PM

Quick question on 335-esque guitars -- stop tail piece or trapeze? Which do you prefer, and why?

**lpdeluxe** · 07-06-2009, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Quick question on 335-esque guitars -- stop tail piece or trapeze? Which do you prefer, and why?

I much prefer stop tail pieces. More sustain (and better appearance). Gibson began installing trapezes under Norlin as a cost-cutting measure (they are more tolerant of sloppy mounting, and the parts probably cost less, as well).

But there are no absolutes: one of the best (and best sounding) players I have ever known played an early '70s 335 with the block inlays and trapeze.

**Innerurge1** · 07-06-2009, 02:52 PM

both have pluses and minuses...

Honestly i believe one is not superior to the other...

Stop Tail has the benefit of more sustain...

however, trapeze tailpiece has a much warmer tone in my opinion...

**Timo** · 10-05-2011, 08:38 AM

I recently bought a used 2008, 50th anniversary VOS ES 335. Yes, it was expensive, but I bought it used and so saved quite a bit of money.

It's the best guitar I've ever played- smooth, and easy to play- and the pickups are fantastic (classic 57s) - so if you like the sound and the feel of the guitar, Gibson is definitely worth the money.

**mattymel** · 10-05-2011, 03:17 PM

i had a 68' 335 back in the day with the trapeze, and i found it to be NOT as warm as the stoptail.

the trapeze is more of a acoustic sound with the PU to my ear, which i dont really want from a 335.

i would say though that buying a luthier made instrument (that you havent played) is the same deal as buying a vintage gibson (that you havent played). then again, if you buy a vintage gibson, you are sure to get most if not all OR more than what you paid for it. versus if you buy a brand new guitar it loses a few G's out the door.

i would definitely play a Moffa before i bought it. im sure they are VERY well made, but that doesnt mean you will dig it. ive played MANY exceptionally made guitars that i wouldnt want for me.

PS...i too have a 335 59' RI and i swear it is the best 335 i have ever played. you could easily get one of those used for probably 3G, though they are hard to find used...for good reason.