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Cheap is all I play. My Jazz guitar is an Ibanez AFJ85 which I got for a little over $300.
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12-16-2014 12:14 PM
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Ive owned expensive strats, and one expensive (for me) jazz guitar (Hofner vice president), an ibanez am-50, and played £10k strats, Gibson L5s.
Do me the hofner was the most beautiful guitar of them all, but the neck was too thick for my hands. sadly I sold it to a famous German jazz guitarist.
I never bonded with my more expensive guitars as well as my old Mexican strats and Chinese fender mp jag I just bought for £160 new. I have a faith acoustic that I love and cost me £200 used.
last week a guy bought a cheap ibanez archtop to try out a peavey classic 30 he bought off me. he sounded sensational through the peavey doing raunchy blues/bluegrass, warm and musical and I could almost feel the deep south heat as he played. His ibanez had been set up real nice and low and it played for me like butter, unlike the ibanez and Gibsons in the local shops.
Let's face it, the pickup and amp is way more important than the guitar for amplified sound
(having kind of not said "in my opinion" I'm going to duck my head and beat an ordered retreat :-)
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I play a Squier Strat with D'addario Flatwounds. maaaan. Tone for days through this DLX Reverb amp model. Most jazz tones are too mellow and in the mix to me. With the strat i get the mellowness but I'm able to cut through the mix when I can also. It responds and it feels good, regardless of the details.
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I've enjoyed reading these comments. I play only for myself, these days, but began in 1963 with a Harmony Archtone I stole from my brother. Very rough on the fingers, but developed a good grip. A succession of inexpensive guitars and lots of odd jobs and mowed lawns later, an older neighbor sold me his 1963 Mosrite Ventures' Model when he quit his band. That guitar was my all-time favorite, sadly long-gone (let's not talk about it, okay?) and I have easily owned well over three hundred guitars throughout the years. When I saw this thread I reflected on the expensive and cheap guitars. None were better than others, simply because of their cost. Since I have not passed up really good deals on guitars, I've kept a bunch of cheap ones, along with some more expensive ones. One of the best for jazz is an Electra X510. Another good one is an old Kay-made archtop acoustic, Silvertone branded, wonderful guitar. Both of those were good deals, but they also were not cheap. A cheap one, that was never expensive, even when new, is a Sears two-pickup mid-size body archtop which cost $74.95 new around 1960. It required some work when I got it, but it sounds great and is easy to play. I recently had a cheap solidbody Strat knock-off in my shop for repair and it played and sounded great. I think it was an older Japanese, rather than Korean or Chinese, but it came out of a Goodwill store for $49.99. I can't say I've seen or played currently-made cheap guitars that are worth the money (under $200) since used ones are everywhere that often beat new ones for sound and playability. Since I know a fair amount about production methods and costs, I fail to see why some guitars cost as much as they do, and some rere new ones are exceptional values. I've seen, however, that customers over the years find guitars that play well and sound great, and they don't care who made them or that they are inexpensive.
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Actually, IMHO (!), this is where it's at. In electrics, "Tone for days..." comes from 80% or more from pickups and amp, with some very special guitars throwing in the resonant qualities of materials to augment how the strings react to the player. I also own a '54 Gibson ES-175D which sounds like several other guitars similarly built. And, I have a Hagstrom HIIN which will emulate most archtops, and does a killer imitation of Eric Clapton's SG on Sunshine of Your Love through my little Old School Miro Amp (Home Page), and my Fender Jaguar can do jazz like nobody's business, as well as some great rock and astounding surf sounds.
Originally Posted by stellarstar
I build my own electrics and acoustics, and to me my Holy Grail is finding the wood and pickups which compliment each other and work well through my amps. The amps are a '65 Fender Bassman black face, Old School Micro Amp, Fender Princeton 112, and a very old first-run Heathkit dual 12" with reverb. If I put flatwounds on any of them, of course, it shifts into a new realm of flexibility. For many sounds I like, my preference is to use very old (NOS) Black Diamond strings. In '65 I was playing in a rock band and found the sound they made was so delicious that I kept buying them until they all-but-disapppeared from the market. I bought a bulk lot four years ago off eBay and am slowly whittling them down. The sounds you can get by switching strings, amps, and some creative capcitor-resistor mixes is, seemingly, unlimited. I particularly like Bill Lawrence's pickups (Home Page) and his great passive Q-fIlter. BTW, I love guitars, just so you know. Then there are the bass guitars...
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I am looking for suggestions for affordable, gig worthy hollow body jazz guitars. Obviously I'd love to get a Gibson ES 175 but I don't have $5k sitting around. What do you recommend for a nice warm tone in a hollow body for under $2k?
I have tried several of the epiphone and entry level Gretsch electromatic and was unsatisfied. The best sounding hollow body I've tried so far that I could afford was the Heritage 575. Anyone have any other suggestions?
thanks much,
John
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Under $2K? I see used Gibson ES-175s pop up for about $2K every now and then. Check out the ES-165 as well, they seem to routinely sell for less, although I can't imagine why other than lack of recognition - they're essentially a single-pickup ES-175 with (arguably) nicer appointments - gold hardware, flamed top/back, and Herb Ellis's name on the headstock. There are several for sale on eBay right now less than $2K. If you have $2K to spend, why look at substitutes when the real thing is in reach?
Last edited by Danno1985; 01-19-2015 at 01:24 AM.
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Eastman has several excellent models under $2k.
Personally, I love my Ibanez AF105NT, which I bought used for only $400. There are a lot of really nice options in the $400-800 range, too.
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if you could afford the heritage, you probably won't do much better at any price point.
i'm sort of partial to (the aesthetics of) hofners but the new epiphone es175 premium is a hot topic around these parts, too. you might even track down a few mij epiphones if ebay doesn't scare you. several nice mij gretsches around, but they aren't what people think of for traditional tones, though they can be appropriated for that sort of thing.
this is also sound advice. Originally Posted by Danno1985
for two thousand, you pretty much have a super buttload of options.
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Gb10?
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If you never owned an es-175 and you have 2000k I would just be patient and hunt down one or a es-165. Its an itch that NEED to be scratched once. If not you will end up one day wanting to sell your guitar to get one. Not that its necessary the best guitar. But you kinda need to play one to "be there done that".
Just a lot less than 2 cents opinion
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I owned one of the early ES 165 Herb Ellis for some years, and it was a great guitar. It came new from factory with a set in 490 R humbucker pickup, which I later replaced with a classic 57, keeping the original.
As was previously suggested by other members, try one of these if you can.
Cannot comment on the later floating pickup ES 165 Herb Ellis version as never owned, played, or listened to one in person.
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+1 on the ES 165. I have one and also replaced the 490R with a classic 57. I paid well under $2k for it a couple years ago and love it. I also have an L5 WesMo which is lovely but the ES165 seems to get more playing time...
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The Peerless models are definitely worth looking at. I have the Sunset. Still on sale at Guitars'n'Jazz for $895. There are also full-body models that are $1000-1500--Cremona, Monarch, etc.
Also look at Godin. I really like the Premiere--it's a semi, but has a unique arched block. Great thinline-style guitar.
I love the 175, but IMO getting one used for a reasonable price is hit or miss. The quality control and predictability of the Godin and Peerless (and maybe Eastman too, though I have no personal experience) is outstanding.
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...Carved GB10?`
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Gads, when I looked at this thread I expected your dilemma to be in the $500-600 range. But $2k is a whole different take on affordable.
The 575 and 175 are to me top contenders, as might be the Gretsch (6xxx models) pro level models.
I think though that of the two (575 and 175) the 575 is about the most consistent in sound whereas the 175 is all over the place. Gretsch, well is Gretsch very consistent in the "niches" they're in. If you wanted to save some money further (say for another amp) the upper end Ibanez AF (venetian cutaway) / AK (Florentine cutaway) are also excellent choices.
Right now there are at least two 575's and an Eagle for $1700 or less with BIN on Ebay.
Also besides the multitude of great guitars players here will probably suggest, there are a BUNCH of sleepers like the ARIA PE-175 Herb Ellis that can be had well within your budget!
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From what I've seen and played, I'd go with an Eastman 371. Get an excellent luthier to do a set-up, throw some TI Swing's on there and you're set. You're under $1K.
Then I'd use the leftover $1K to buy an amp head and a small or medium cab, adding a larger cab later.
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There are plenty of gig worthy instruments under $1,000, let alone 2,000. Eastman, Epiphone, Agile, Ibanez, D'Angelico, the list goes on...
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Loving my Hagstrom HJ-600.
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Nearly the same with my ES165. Originally Posted by jasonmi3
I play it 90% of the time, while my Heritage Golden Eagle sits in the guitar stand and is waiting to be played...
The ES165 is the best allround Jazzguitar i ever had. 25 years of playing Jazz...
Edit: Avoid the Model w. floating pickup, its not the same.Last edited by redwater; 01-20-2015 at 08:05 AM.
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Get the Heritage! It is a nicer guitar than the ES175 anyways.
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The Peerless Jazz City is a very nice piece. under 1200 I believe.
There are some very nice Semi-hollow bodied guitars below 1000 you might want to look at as well.
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My Epi ES 175 premium cost $750 -- it's perfect for gigs.
My Ibanez AFJ85 cost $350! it's perfect for gigs too!
Come to think of it, the only guitar I have that cost more than $1K is a flat top . . .
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Since you're in Philly, you have plenty of options (as folks have already noted). For your area, I'd check out Guitars n' Jazz for a specialized store nearby where you can try out lots of options. Of coure, NYC is always an option, though sadly 48th street is not what it was. Not sure if Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island is still open after the founder died, but they would be similarly helpful.
For people to help with more than a laundry list of their own favorites, we all need more of an idea of what sound you want.
If you want a dark laminate with "thunk" (as we say around here) Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, Tal Farlow sound, than a used (not vintage) 175, 165 with mounted (but not floating) pup or Heritage Groovemaster or 550 would all work. I can't speak to the (Westerly) Guild laminates or Ibanez Pat Methany models, but they have great reputations. I've even seen guys sound great playing the budget Ibanez artcore and Epi models with modifications.
The GB-10s are laminates too, but everyone I've heard has been much brighter than the traditional 50's jazz sound of the 175 type guitars. However, I've never played one myself so that may just be coincidence. Note Benson only started playing this guitar after he started playing pop and smooth jazz. He also always seems to switch to a more traditional big box when going back to playing straight ahead, and has said he records with the $50,000 original D'angelico.
If you're looking for a Burrell, Wes, or mid-60s Benson sound it's trickier, as those guys played 17-18" carved tops with mounted pups. Used Heritage Eagles are the only instruments like this likely to be at $2,000, and even then you'll be very lucky. Not sure about Hofners' pricing, but they're good pro-level instruments. IMHO, a 16" 575 is alot closer to this than a laminate (especially the 575 Custom with a spruce top) and used instruements are well within your price range.
The solid pressed top Asian D'angelico and D'aquisto copies could be a good compromise option. I play a Japanese NYL2 when the weather, like now, is too inhospitable for my Heritate Super Eagle. It definitely has more of a carved top sound than my laminate Heritage 525, but is very feedback resistant. Anyone know if the full-sized Ibanez George Bensons sound more like these pressed tops or more like the darker 175 type guitars?
Eastmans and plain Heritage Eagles are in your price range for carved x-braced with floaters. These are usually thought of as problematic for gigging, but both Benson and Martino played guitars like these in the late 60s (though Martino struggled with feedback, and stuffed his guitar). I know a guy in DC who plays loud funk influenced hard bop on an x-braced Eastman with a floater without problems (he uses home made Doug's Plugs).
Second the idea of saving enough for a decent amp. No sense plugging a $2K guitar into a POS. But, that's another entire universe of options. Again, Guitars n' Jazz would give you lots of chance to try things out in person.
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I have a Hofner New President, 16" carved-spruce that I'm actually looking to sell in this price range, less than 2k. I have not posted it on the For Sale forum yet, but it's on the market if anyone is interested.
Peacemover, I sent you a private message.Last edited by DanH8482; 01-20-2015 at 07:10 PM.
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Speaker choice for old jazz?
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