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+1 mad dog - there are some great guitars out there that need some TLC upgrading and they will play great.
Last edited by ChrisDowning; 01-05-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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01-05-2014 01:23 PM
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I went through their neck and body builders and the price was over $1500. You could save money of you finish it yourself (I would fudge that up) and bought stuff on sale, but unless you have a drawer full of hardware, you ain't making a Warmoth partscaster for $600.
Originally Posted by ChrisDowning
That said, I think getting the specs you want is worth it. Start saving loonies!
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Yep I got my costs all wrong. The 'Epiphone' + upgrade path works better.
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If I could do it all over again, with one or two cheap-o guitars, I would really learn set up and swapping a neck pickup before I ventured out into purchasing anything else.
I have some really nice stuff and some really inexpensive stuff and the G&L/Squier route with a proper setup and strings and pickup is hard to beat. If you can get a Squier Classic Vibe or G&L Tribute and swap out the neck PU and do a proper setup you are going to be really blown away. Put a few bucks into a Roland Cube or a used Henriksen/Polytone/AI/Evans/Quilter and you've got a tone that's good enough to most where you should stop fussing about the gear and fuss over the music.
If you already have the Fender shapes covered, try an Epi Les Paul or 335 or 175 shape and do the same (PU replacement, strings and pro set up).
I spent way too much $ over the years being afraid of doing this stuff myself. I'd buy a new guitar and spend hundreds and wait a week or two to get it tweaked where I can now do this in the garage in an evening. The funny part is that I don't even have an "eye" for twisted necks and setups and what not -- I have a handful of simple tools that are easy to read and deliver a fantastic result every time.
Anyway, good luck!
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Silentwiz - I completely concur with everything you have said. After playing for 50 years I have made exactly the same mistakes early on and now have a a set of guitars I'd be happy to compare to anything out there - and not one of them is worth more than £750. As you say, it's all about finding a basic good playing/sounding instrument then upgrading some critical bits and getting it all set up perfectly by a good luthier. You could do it yourself, but the guy I've always used does about 30 every week and has been doing it for years - I know he knows how to do it better than me. Every student of mine that has gone this route has been amazed at the results they get within half the cost of a top line instrument.
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Hello all, I have another question for all the users of this wonderful forum:
Do you play and/or perform using cheap gear?
My favorite guitar, the one I use the most, is a $290 Ibanez AF75. Other than that, I mainly use a $170 "Angel Lopez"(Stagg I believe) solid-body nylon-string guitar, which I love. The craftsmanship on the nylon-string is questionable, at the very least, with painted-on binding and lots of rough edges. The same can't be said about the Ibanez, which has impeccable build quality, money considered. This guitar is so good, that the seller could've asked for at least $600 without me questioning it. This guitar is the one for me, the one that's my guitar.
I use a Fender Super Champ XD as my main amp, as I rarely need much volume.
It's not that I haven't got pricier/'better' gear, I have a Washburn Falcon, 1969 Telecaster thinline, 1963 Maton Supreme 777 and a 1976 stratocaster at my disposal, to name a few. It's just that these cheap ones are spot-on for me, and reflect my personality somewhat, further allowing me to express myself musically! You can't put a price on soul, affection and sentimentality!
I'd love to hear from anyone else who uses 'cheap' gear
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A far as guitars, it depends on what is considered cheap.
But some years I bought a "Palmer" bass sight unseen on ebay for $275 new. Sold my Fender and never looked back. Excellent bass: solid mahogany body, wonderful maple neck, rosewood fb, two active pickups with vol, tre, mid, bas balance. And I'm not exactly a hack on bass - I use it for symphony pops and theatrical pit jobs.
Re Stagg: I tried a fretless Stagg bass in a store. Exceptional for the price, almost bought it just to fool around with fretless.
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I play homemade Telecasters - different PU combinations for different genres. I use a $250 G&K MB200 bass head with homemade cabinets for an amp. My only expensive guitar is a 2005 Martin D18v. My nylon string is a $600 Cordoba GK Studio. I haven't had a gig yet that these won't cover from orchestra pit to classic rock to surf to classic country. I probably have less than $2000 tied up in all my gear with the Martin being the biggest slice. I tend to spend my time playing instead of buying and selling equipment in the hopes of capturing someone else's sound. I did just buy an AI Clarus but only because it was cheap and I can make some money on it - I can't afford to have it sitting around tying up my money - I'll probably try it but doubt it will replace the MB200.
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My tele is on the low end of what i own (nothing too extravagant on the high end either) and it certainly gets much of the plugged in play, almost all recently.
But for acoustics, I dig my Taylor, and it is my most expensive guitar.
Amps wise, i have a range too...but i gig the good stuff.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 11-23-2014 at 10:58 PM.
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My experience with cheap guitars ended when I was 16. Worked hard and saved money to make it so.
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I love my cheapies . . . some get played more than others.
My first "jazz" guitar was a blem squire affinity tele -- $120 new.
It sounded really good with new pick ups & shielding. Ridiculously good for the $$. I picked up a squire classic vibe the other day at a shop -- almost brought it home! still might have to . . .
My very favorite cheap but good guitar is a Fender Sonoran acoustic/electric. It gets the nod at weekly dive bar jams -- especially when the weather sucks and I want my nice Gibson to stay at home. The Sonoran sounds great plugged in or acoustic, and it's OK if it takes a fall or gets beer spilled on it ! Tough & surprisingly good tone. Maybe not the perfect jazz machine, but it gets lots of use, sounds good and is reliable.
Also, on the amp side of things, I have a $90 pawn shop 1980's Randall RG-30 SS amp that sounds every bit as good as many a boutique jazz amp. I don't play it all the time, but I could if I had to. I have newer fancy amps (Henriksen, Quilter, PRRI . . . ) that I play more often, but the old Randall sure keeps up. makes me wonder about progress . . . .
cheap can be good IMO
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Got my 62' Harmony Patrician off ebay for $60.
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Does my partscaster count? I don't care what a guitar costs if I like it, I play it. I played inexpensive guitar most my life, until I took a left turn into the computer day gig. Only good thing about the day gig thing is you can afford nice gear.
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my belief is that if a guitar no matter what the brand/shape can stay in tune and offer you the tone you like....NO matter what the price you can gig it .
BUT i think us guitarists go beyond just the practicalities of an instrument ... and we all fall in love with certain brands/asthetics/craftmanship
personally i am at the stage of owning some real nice guitars ...but kinda like a hobby i love looking through pawn shops and 2nd hand music stores for guitars but tend to buy them for one aspect like this week i found a samick smx1 (the korean made ones with the valley arts custom shop logo on them) which has an awesome birdseye maple 2 octave neck with ebony fretboard bound and with frets in perfect order .... this neck i love the feel of and bought the entire guitar $200 just for the neck ...being a bolt on i will take it off and use it on another guitar ...this way i dabble in partcasters but use high end pickups and hardware but find some real good odds and ends around.... i have a collection of parts /necks/bodies i can mix and match ..........all for cheap and the results are awesome ....and all giggable and customised to my own likes as a player ...so yes lots of nice features on cheapies .... and often a few parts swops and you have a real gem .... this is true for electrics or semi hollows
****however i must say for anything acoustic be it archtop or flattop i think you get what you pay for ....
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I have some expensive guitars but they are flat tops. I find it fairly easy to hear the difference between 'best' and 'very good' in flat tops and I enjoy what a great instrument will do. Wish I could spend some time with something like a Trenier or even a Collings but those are not common in this part of the country. Probably should just order one. Not getting any younger.
As for those who find guitars and gear to be mere appliances and revel in their parsimony, that's fine. You can certainly still make great music. However, I like nice guitars and it's a good reward for a lifetime of hard work.
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I have some high end guitars that are great, and several Strats including American reissues. Hands down my fave Strat is a Classic Vibe.
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If your instrument doesn't inhibit your skills and talents, what does it matter how "cheap" it is?
I showed up to jazz camp with an L5 Wes Mo, and got played under the table by guys with $300 Epi's, Squires and Ibanezs.
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I'm getting as much work now with my inexpensive, modded instruments as with my expensive, icon-branded ones. I even like the tone of the least expensive ones best, most probably 'cause I've'em setup exactly the way I want'em, with the hardware parts that worked best, and the p'ups that sounded best in'em.
HTH,
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I only play cheap guitars.
They perfectly match with my playing skills.
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I've found that today's cheap guitars are consistently better players than the mid-range instruments I bought 25 years ago. I have a $200 SX archtop that plays like a dream. It doesn't have the acoustic snap of a nicer guitar, but it sounds just fine plugged in. Vintage cheap is usually good for a few grins too.
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My most expensive guitar is my ES-175 Premium and I got a great deal on it. My favorite guitar is my Emperor Regent that I got real cheap. I have had Gibsons, Heritage etc but they really didn't play any better than what I have now (Of course YMMV)
I also love my Squier 51 for Blues and rock as well as my partscaster Strat. All are gig worthy and cheap.
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An experience: When I was in grad school I also took a couple music courses at a local community college. One was a sight-reading lab big band. My guitar was an old Harmony Bobkat that I stripped to wood and put an old Gibson Melody Maker pickup in and huge strings - .015 I think. Total cost $65.00! I wasn't too good a player but the guy next to me had a Gibson Super 400 - and my cheapo clunker had a rich jazz sound that left his sound in the dust. He was so brutal in his snide comments that I dropped out. I have used cheap guitars ever since. My current favorites are a Washburn knockoff Strat I got for $90 and replaced the pickups in, and a homebrew hockshop special with a Gibson bolt on neck, P90 pickup and a Guitarfetish replacement body.
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This is certainly true. I bought a used First Act flat top acoustic at a pawnshop one day because I was irritated to (again) be stuck across town without time to pick up an instrument for lessons. got it for $25.... Now, I just leave this one in a closet, just in case, and don't have to worry about it. Originally Posted by Engine Swap
Not a go-to instrument by any means, but I'm always amazed at how it sounds compared to mid range stuff from back in the day. It sounds better than the $400 acoustics we sold at the store in the late 90's, especially intonation up the neck.
If someone dings it or I have to leave it in a hot car for a minute, I don't sweat it. In some settings, it's hard to put a price price on a decent instrument you don't have to worry about.
In some settings, it's hard to put a price price on a decent instrument you don't have to worry about.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-24-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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I'm happy with my Ibanez AF85. (If I had my druthers, I'd have a deeper cutaway, but other than that, this guitar isn't holding me back a-tall.)
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My faves that are always on a stand ready to play is a Harmony 335 copy, and Emperor I / Joe Pass Emperor 2. My "Investment" in them is small, but the play time is large.
I've said it before, there are no mysteries left in guitar making, and it doesn't take thousands of dollars to get the sound you want, maybe only a pup change. Jeez, even MANY owners of high end guitars swap pups on a regular basis seeking an elusive tone.
Back in the day when Gibson and Fender ruled the guitar kingdom it was different, today you not only have more inexpensive choices, you can have more selection on hand at home / on stage to play more styles with substantially less money spent than on one premium guitar.
Here's the Harmony. It has an old DiMarzio in the neck, and Schaller at the bridge. All Gibson controls. Pups were free (in a deal) total investment <$300
Last edited by GNAPPI; 11-24-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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