Can't decide which hollow body jazz guitar to buy

[East to Wes]

I know it's a cliché post, but I need help making a decision. I'd like to buy a hollow-body jazz guitar. Here are the considerations:

Price: I'd like to spend less than $1000 total, including case, any taxes or shipping, and setup costs.

I'd like a 24.75" scale length, and I'd like to lean toward a smaller body size. I have probably average-sized hands for a woman, but my hands and fingers are much smaller than those of many men. I need all the help I can get reaching chords and scales.

I'll probably only use the neck pickup, but two pickups is fine. I'd be happy with only one. I play with a pick most of the time, and I don't want the knobs on the pickguard--it looks like they'd be in the way.

I'd be happy to find something used, but I don't want to get ripped off.

I just want a classic sounding and looking jazz guitar. I'm going to jazz camp this summer and I'd like to have a guitar that fits in--not particularly expensive or fancy, but not embarrassing.

What I've looked at: Godin Kingpin 5th Avenue--I saw a nice-looking one used within driving distance for $425 including a case. It doesn't have a cutaway though, and although I once thought I'd be happy with this guitar, now I'm having doubts.

Epiphone ES-175 Premium Hollowbody: currently on sale in wine red for $749 w/o case ($899 for other colors). The wine red wouldn't be my first choice, but it's growing on me.

Various Ibanez Artcore models. Various Epiphones. I'd consider Gretsch, Guild, or anything really, just as long as it fits my other needs.

I don't want a tremolo bar, so any guitar with that is automatically ruled out. I'm also especially concerned with quality--if the guitar has fret buzz, uneven frets, intonation problems, or other such issues, I won't be happy. I'm not techy, and I want something low maintenance. I don't want to swap out pickups or anything, though I do change my own strings.

I'd also like to buy something locally that I can pick up and examine in person. I hate the idea of buying something online, waiting for it, and then having to worry about quality issues.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Longways to Go]

Epi Es-175 Premium is my vote. Great deal, great guitar!

[East to Wes]

Thanks! I'm going to look at a couple of local stores this evening, and I'm hoping they have one.

Any opinion on the used Godin? It's a lot less money.

[spiral]

NP. I'll give you my cliché answers.

Most to least traditional:
Eastman AR371 - ES175 copy. doesn't get more classic. cheap.
Eastman AR503 - carved top, 25" scale, thinner depth.
Eastman AR403 - laminate, 25" scale, thinner depth.
Epiphone Sorrento Anniversary - laminate thin fully hollow, mini humbuckers, $500 in blonde. versatile. awesome factory setup and fretwork. premium electronics/pickups.

Sorry those are unlikely to be local to you but any of them are superior to the lower end ($500) Ibanez and Epiphones.

[East to Wes]

Thanks. I haven't looked into the Eastman models at all, but obviously a lot of people like them.

[pubylakeg]

If the body size is a particularly important factor, the Epiphone Sorrento would be a good choice, and there's also the option of the Epiphone Casino, which is a fully hollow thin line, with 2 P90 pickups. The older Korean Epiphones are particularly well thought of, build quality wise. The Casino would also be readily available from a variety of sources.

[spiral]

Thanks. I haven't looked into the Eastman models at all, but obviously a lot of people like them.

I noticed your location is Chicago. Do you like any particular stores there? I'm close enough to make a weekend trip there. I was at the Chicago Music Exchange a few months ago but wasn't looking to buy at the time.

CME is probably the best store for selection. They are really knowledgeable too. Their prices are average. Guitar Center is decent but lacking in hollowbody fare. Rock N Roll Vintage is also good. There aren't a ton of great stores in the city.

You are welcome to come over to play the few electrics I have (Gretsch 6118, Eastman 371, Epi Sorrento, & Hofner Vice President). They are set up properly and you can actually hear yourself play without someone noodling nearby at ear-splitting volumes. PM me if you are interested.

[norpron]

+1 on the Epiphone Premium ES-175. I have a Gibson ES-175, but have played around a lot with the Epis at my local store. The build quality and pickups on the Epiphone Premium ES-175 are extraordinary for a "budget" jazz guitar.

[East to Wes]

Thanks for the replies. After checking out a couple of stores and discussions with sales people, I now have no idea what I want.

I thought I wanted a traditional full-size hollowbody, but now I don't know. All the thinlines and semi-hollows have added complications to the choice. I can't even remember what models I looked at now, but a bunch of Epiphones, and a couple of Gibsons out of my price range.

[JohnCordy]

I've had both the AR371 and the Epiphone ES175 premium. I kept the ES175. I think the Ibanez PM35 is perhaps worth considering, I have one of those too, and don't think I'll be selling despite having the ES175. The ES175 is darker than the AR371 too, perhaps partly due to the Mahogany neck, perhaps partly due to pickups etc.

[Al Br.]

Since it sounds like you are somewhat starting out why not find something that feels good in your hand and is not very expensive. Later as things develop either sell what you started with and move up to something better suited to whatever you need, or keep it and start a collection. That has been known to happen on occasion. ;-)

A semi hollow is a nice in-between place to start and sort of falls in the middle of the road as guitar type choices go. Versatile, good for just about any style or genre you like. Good ones can be had from the mid 300's to under a grand. Over a grand and figure on it being a long term investment. I would start at the low end in case you decide to forget the whole idea and move on to something else. Even cheaper ones are still worthy pieces as long as you stick with a known name brand, ie: Epiphone, Wabash for example.

Even if you limit yourself to this range you'll still have a good variety of choices. As for listening to the sales people.....take that with a grain of salt. Remember they are just trying to put food on the table.
The other thing is to get your hands on as many different brands and types you can. There are a lot of good ones but they are not created equal. Find the one that fits your hands the best. Get that and you'll find yourself playing away for hours at a time and enjoying the ride along the way. If after 30 minutes you tire, then you've got the wrong guitar.

Main thing is, unless you know your time on this earth is short and you are on a mission to get the pen-ultimate guitar on the first pass, (good luck with that), take your time and be patient. The right guitar is out there with your name on it. Like the perfect partner, it just takes a little time to find.

[mr. beaumont]

I see used 2 pickup Godin Kingpins for around $700-800 all the time online. Pretty safe bet. Great, worry free guitars.

There's a blonde Composer on ebay right now for $875. I'd be on that like a fly on...potato salad...if I needed a good jazzbox.

[East to Wes]

Since it sounds like you are somewhat starting out why not find something that feels good in your hand and is not very expensive. Later as things develop either sell what you started with and move up to something better suited to whatever you need, or keep it and start a collection. That has been known to happen on occasion. ;-)

A semi hollow is a nice in-between place to start and sort of falls in the middle of the road as guitar type choices go. Versatile, good for just about any style or genre you like. Good ones can be had from the mid 300's to under a grand. Over a grand and figure on it being a long term investment. I would start at the low end in case you decide to forget the whole idea and move on to something else. Even cheaper ones are still worthy pieces as long as you stick with a known name brand, ie: Epiphone, Wabash for example.

Even if you limit yourself to this range you'll still have a good variety of choices. As for listening to the sales people.....take that with a grain of salt. Remember they are just trying to put food on the table.
The other thing is to get your hands on as many different brands and types you can. There are a lot of good ones but they are not created equal. Find the one that fits your hands the best. Get that and you'll find yourself playing away for hours at a time and enjoying the ride along the way. If after 30 minutes you tire, then you've got the wrong guitar.

Main thing is, unless you know your time on this earth is short and you are on a mission to get the pen-ultimate guitar on the first pass, (good luck with that), take your time and be patient. The right guitar is out there with your name on it. Like the perfect partner, it just takes a little time to find.

This is good advice. I have three guitars now, but 95% of the time I play a steel string flat top. It's nothing fancy, but I love that guitar. It sounds jazzy when I play jazz on it. I wouldn't buy a new guitar at all except that I need something for a camp as well as a class I plan to take soon, and an acoustic steel string with a cheap clip-on pickup, as much as it works in the practice room, won't cut it.

It seems like a momentous decision because I don't want to keep buying guitars. It seems like I have to select an identity as a jazz player. I'm probably overthinking it.

I really liked the shorter scale length on several of the guitars I played. It made a huge difference. Mostly the problem is that I feel torn between the classic big jazz box with powerful acoustic sound vs. the comfort, smaller size, and lighter weight of the thin hollows. I know I don't want a strictly electric guitar, and I don't want something heavy.

I'm considering the Epiphone Casino right now.

[East to Wes]

About a year ago I almost bought a Godin Kingpin, but now my tastes have shifted.

I looked at the Composer. It's pretty. But again, now I'm thinking I should go with a smaller body size.

[mr. beaumont]

Which guitars are you looking at that have a smaller body size?

[dingusmingus]

I love guitars, and I never want to discourage anyone from buying another, but there actually is no law that you need to play jazz on an archtop. Telecasters are quite popular, for example. If you already have an electric you like, I can almost promise there is no need to feel self conscious about taking that to a jazz class, or camp, or jam, or anything else.

I'm a newbie myself. When I go to jams, half the time I take a tele, have the time an archtop. (Eastman 371). I believe I am the only person who even notices the difference!

But again, I'm the last one to try to stop anyone from buying a new guitar!

[East to Wes]

Epiphone Casino, Casino Coupe, even a used Gibson ES-330 (a bit pricey, but not crazy).

I'd consider other brands as well.

[East to Wes]

Thanks.

I already feel worried about the camp though, so I don't want to be the one outlier who brought the out-of-place guitar.

My two other guitars are an electric that I hate (I keep meaning to sell it) and a classical guitar. I like the classical, but I've since settled on playing with a pick. I play it on occasion and fingerpick or play it with a pick sometimes. But like the steel-string, it's not amplified, and I think I need something I can plug in.

[mr. beaumont]

Personally, were I going to a camp, I'd bring a hollowbody over my tele, even though my tele is really my "main axe." Would be nice to have something I could hear unplugged for downtime/impromptu jams and not have to worry about always having an amp...

[mangotango]

Ibanez Artstar Series AM153 - Dark Brown Sunburst | Sweetwater.com

Smaller body. 24.75" scale. Within budget, though not by much. Depends on whether you think that a semi-acoustic (semi-hollow) would work for you and what you expect from a "jazz guitar". Only you are going to be able to answer that.

Good luck in your search.

[dingusmingus]

Thanks.

I already feel worried about the jazz camp though, so I don't want to be the one outlier who brought the out-of-place guitar.

My two other guitars are an electric that I hate (I keep meaning to sell it) and a classical guitar. I like the classical, but I've since settled on playing with a pick. I play it on occasion and fingerpick or play it with a pick sometimes. But like the steel-string, it's not amplified, and I think I need something I can plug in.

Sure, that makes sense. Again, I'm not sure you'd be an outlier with whatever electric you have now (unless it's a Kramer with a pointy headstock!), but if you hate it, of course you should get a new guitar! Have a great time shopping!

(I don't have anything concrete to offer. My Eastman, as a 175 knockoff, is not really a smaller body-size.)

[drbhrb]

Ibanez Artstar Series AM153 - Dark Brown Sunburst | Sweetwater.com

Smaller body. 24.75" scale. Within budget, though not by much. Depends on whether you think that a semi-acoustic (semi-hollow) would work for you and what you expect from a "jazz guitar". Only you are going to be able to answer that.

Good luck in your search.

Bought one of these recently and I'm very happy with it. The build quality/QC is much better than my Eastman.

[spiral]

Epiphone Casino, Casino Coupe, even a used Gibson ES-330 (a bit pricey, but not crazy).

The Casino was a good suggestion. The only reason I suggested the Sorrento instead of the Casino is because of the P90s in the Casino. As a "road worthy" (or camp worthy in your case) guitar I would want the clarity of single coils but none of the noise in unpredictable environments, which is what the mini-hb's will give you. I've owned a few Casinos and they are all good (Indonesian, Korean, and Chinese). I have very small hands (my mother's gift to me) and don't find the scale lengths to be that much different. If anything I find a longer scale and a thicker neck easier to play. FWIW.

[mr. beaumont]

Sure, that makes sense. Again, I'm not sure you'd be an outlier with whatever electric you have now (unless it's a Kramer with a pointy headstock!), but if you hate it, of course you should get a new guitar! Have a great time shopping!

(I don't have anything concrete to offer. My Eastman, as a 175 knockoff, is not really a smaller body-size.)

Yeah, 175's feel pretty big to me, because they're deeper than most archtops.

[Jabberwocky]

First, it is really good to hear from one of the few women guitarists on this forum. Welcome, East to Wes. Love your handle.

It sounds like you could use an Ibanez AFJ-91. I like Ibanez for its no nonsense prosaic approach to providing a decent jazzbox at a down to earth price. You should at least check it out to see if you bond with it. I'm not so sure now if it comes with a functional hand shell case. Ask. And don't pay MAP!

Hollow Bodies Artcore Expressionist - AFJ91 Artcore Expressionist | Ibanez guitars

Ibanez AFJ91AFF - Antique Fade Flat | Sweetwater.com