-
Folks, I've had an old but near mint early 70s silverface Champ. I rehearsed with it tonight in a really small environment so the champ is ideal. It wasn't cranked...but after an hour of playing it started farting out big time. Especially the low end. The output tube was glowing brightly...so I suspect the 40year old tubes need a change ?.
Then I started wondering...is my little champ worth modding with a view to using it purely for jazz tones?
I'm thinking new tubes/speaker??
All advice appreciated.
-
03-04-2015 07:03 PM
-
I had a '70's silver face Champ that I bought new around 1974. Farting out after playing for awhile could mean that it's time for a cap job and maybe some new tubes. My Champ would always fart out even when I played anything with humbuckers, especially my '69 Les Paul Custom. I was jamming with some guys in the mid '90's playing the LP through an original Mutron III into the Champ. It sounded great for about five minutes and then the caps melted down and the power tube blew. I spent $110 on a cap job and bought two new 6v6's. After that, I learned my lesson and kept the amp at home for daily play at no more than 5 on the volume and mostly with single coiled instruments. I did frequently connect its 4 ohm output to the silver faced Twin Reverb I had and it drove the pair of Oxfords quite nicely. Eventually it started to give up the ghost again and I sold it "as is" to a guy at the local pawn shop. I was without a tube amp for a couple of years and got the Jones again so I bought myself a 22 watt EL84 Bugera for less than a rebuild on the Champ would have cost me including new tubes and a speaker upgrade. I find that the additional watts and the 12" speaker are worlds better than the Champ and I can still play at bedroom levels with the Bugera's Triode/Pentode switch on triode and the master volume down to three or lower. Plus it has a digital reverb that is not half bad and a mid tone control as well as bass and volume.
-
They are great little rock amps, but don't know about clean Jazz sound other than practice level.
-
They are fender amps and they sound like fender amps (only smaller).
If you have one that is loud enough and still stays clean then why not?
I have a couple of them. In fact if I had to dump all my amps and keep one it would be my late 70s vibrochamp.
That said..
1) if your speaker is original it is really really not very good.
2) I find the electrolytic caps in these things hold up surprisingly well but definitely worth having a tech check out your cap can. Replacement cans can be had from Antique Electronics for 20$ (iirc .. it has been a few years)
3) If you are going to replace the speaker then consider a higher efficiency one if you want more volume.
3a) if you are going to replace the speaker see 3) but consider an external cab with a 10 or 12 in speaker
3b) If you are going to replace the speaker and dont want an external cab the earlier fender speaker baffles were dadoed into the cab and can be replaced fairly easily. If your baffle is not dadoes (google fender floating baffle) you can (depending on the speaker) shoehorn a 10in in there. Maybe not a big weber alnico with the bell covers (I dont like alnico in champs.. a decent ceramic retains the character of the amp better but that is a personal call)
So yeah.. I like champs
-
Awesome info folks! :-)
I've had this thing for years, and been reluctant to mod it - seeing as it's in such good condition etc..
But, now that it's become unusable I'm keen to start tinkering with it.
I think the first port of call is checking caps and new tubes.
The 10inch speaker sounds good too.
-
One of the finest sounding amps that I've ever had was a 1965 Vibro Champ. Whether set at lower volume for clean or turned up for dirty it always sounded fantastic. The amp did end up getting a cap job in the 90s. I've run across numerous silverface 70s models and they all sounded just as good. I'm not deeply knowledgable about the inner workings of tube amps but I've heard it said that the champs were the one model that really didn't change from the mid 60s to the end of the silverface era. SamBooka's comments/advice are very interesting as I often wondered what a better/larger/more efficient speaker would sound like. At this stage of my playing life It's mostly about clean low volume playing so a VibroChamp would just about be perfect.
-
Love my '65 VC. Simple plug and play.
-
I think blackface/silverface Champs are great amps. That preamp circuit (aa763) is classic. That preamp in itself has good clean headroom. But it's limited obviously in its poweramp stage at ~5 watts, but in stock form they're great for playing at home and maybe a duo situation with sweet tube tone. Then if you can do some mods (tubes, speakers, cabinet, etc) it can be a little more useful beyond home. I think a speaker upgrade to one that is either more efficient/louder and/or bigger (10") would help alot. As would a lower gain preamp tube.
I have a Champ custom clone coming my way that has a 10" speaker and also modified with an output transformer making it capable of using a single 6L6 or KT66 instead of a 6V6. Probably around 8 watts with a 6L6 or KT66. Also will start with a solid state rectifier plugin. These mods should hopefully allow me to use it in duo or small, low volume band rehearsals.
-
I have had a 40+ year love affair with Fender Champ amps. In that time I have owned just about every one made: tweed 5f1 Champ, Blackface Champ, Blackface Vibro-Champ, Silverface Champ, Champ 12, and a _bunch_ of single and parallel 6v6 tube 5f1 tweed Champs that I made. (When I was a kid I passed up on an early Champion 600 because I thought there was no way that it was a real Fender. D'oh! Person wanted $75.)
One thing to remember is that Fender designed the user to plug into input 2 if you are using a high-output (i.e., humbucker) guitar. Another thing: if you are using pedals, that little amp is going to be driven into distortion pretty easily.
The easiest Champs to get a good sound from are, of course, the old tweeds. The reason is that they have only a volume knob. After years of owning post-tweed Champs, I sold them all and now I stick with tweeds. You just can't screw up the sound.
The Champ with volume, treble, and bass is too easy to set up for crummy sound. For example, if you push the bass knob anywhere beyond 5, you are asking for crappy sound to come from the speaker--especially if you are using a humbucker-equipped guitar. Make sure that you shelve the bass--pull the knob back to about 3...especially if you put the volume knob above 4.
If you want the amp to sound decent for playing jazz, try the following settings: volume=4, bass=2, treble=2. Try it. I don't think you will fart out. The stock speaker sounds decent this way. It's a pretty good speaker, by the way.
-
The diy (or have someone build it for you) is a great idea. Go with a bigger speaker and decent iron (CT in mine) and you have a great amp.
-
I used one for recording for a bit. What helped get a cleaner sound ( in addition to speaker change mentioned above)
was to change the 6V6 cathode bias resistor so that the output valve ran much cooler; stock bias is set very high. I don't have the amp any more & can't remember the new value, but it will be on the net, or maybe GT will know. I found a Weber replacement speaker turned it onto a different amp.
Of course, if yours is 40 years old, you'll need some work doing anyway
-
I think a champ with a 10 is a glorious thing
Originally Posted by hallpass
Btw why are you going for SS recto?
-
Would it be worth it to mod a 70's champ to be useful for jazz tones?
I don't think you can get there for jazz purposes. I've built a 1957 spec 5F1 champ and it works fantastic with single coils.... especially Teles. In my experience, the champ is a fine practice room amp and small rock ensemble rehearsal because of its natural overdrive. Doesn't translate a 335 or Archtop very well at all. I've not had problems with mine farting out, but the playing and performance parameters are limited. So I would say... accept the Champ for the classic low wattage amp that it is and find something else more suitable for jazz. My 2 cents.
-
i didn't like my silverface vc at all ....
must've been something wrong with it
i guess , since everyone except me
seems to dig em ....
i also like my blues jnr ...
and nobody seems to dig em ...
probably i'm just an odd duck
-
Pingu,
Sounds like a preference for a 12" speaker vs an 8" speaker, to me...and...you may not have had a use for tremelo--which Fender calls vibrato.
-
I don't think it was the speaker size ...
i'm using an AER compact 60 atmo
(the tremelo/vibrato gadget was great tho)
I think it had fault/issue
cos
I once played a tweed champ clone by Victoria that sounded awesome and was
super light too (12" speaker combo)
-
Ahhhhh...using an extension cabinet. The AER cabinet is more of a speaker that works with high power, class-D solid-state amps. Also, what is the impedance of the cabinet? The Vibro-Champ wants to see a 4-ohm load. It doesn't sound powerful or toneful at 8-ohms. The Blues Jr is an 8-ohm amplifier.
-
Especially when dealing with vintage amps, there's a lot of variation in and inconsistency among otherwise identical amps . I had a blackface Princeton non-reverb that I never bonded with. I had an early silver face pro reverb That I never bonded with. I have a black face tremolux that I am still not bonded with. For the Princeton and the pro I know now, years later, it was probably the speaker that was the weak link. For the tremolo locks I just haven't put the time into getting it to sound good since I don't have a lot of opportunities to play a 40 W amp. Originally Posted by pingu
-
That's just what's in this amp now. I'm not buying it new, and didn't request it, though it is from the person who built it. Apparently it could help with clean headroom a little. I have a 5y3 sitting around though too. Originally Posted by SamBooka
I think a champ with a 10 is a glorious thing
Btw why are you going for SS recto?Last edited by monkmiles; 08-01-2015 at 12:56 AM.
-
It definitely has its limitations. But you can definitely get a great jazz tone from a Champ. The blackface/silverface/aa763 models, which I think is what the OP is referencing, have less crunch than the tweed 5f1. Eitherway I don't think anyone in this thread is necessarily saying to go play a champ in a loud band type setting. There are higher power amps for that for sure. Originally Posted by vernon
Last edited by monkmiles; 08-01-2015 at 11:18 AM.
-
I love the natural distortion I get when I'm chord soloing with the champ through a single coil. I have a Jupiter 8SC in there now but I'm gonna put back the 64 Jensen that she came with. Somehow a 1964 Jensen special design made its way into my 1978 Vibro Champ and it sounds pretty sweet.
Im gonna try Greentone's settings when I get home from duty today.
Reply With Quote
“Shearing style”
Today, 05:26 PM in Comping, Chords & Chord Progressions