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I've been searcing for a quite a while now, but I don't seem to find the right guitar for what I want to do.
Over the last few years I've earned myself some reputation for playing Freddie Green style Big Band Rhythm. The guitar I currently use is an old Höfner, which does the Job, but I'm at a point now where I notice it's limitations. It's kinda close to the Godin 5th Ave.
So what I'd like to buy would be an acoustic Archtop, with a big body (18"-19" would be ideal). Solid Top would be nice I guess, and I don't need any electronics at all, since I will only use it for rhythm. I just need a guitar that gets me as close to Freddie's Sound as possible.
I tried some of the Loars, but I can't stand their necks, same for the new Gretsch New Yorker. Was thinking about maybe getting an Epi Emperor (Because I really like the feel of my Broadway), but I think I'd prefer a non-cutaway body. Haven't played one though.
I think I might enjoy one of the Acoustic Eastman guitars, but I can't find someone selling them here in germany.
Next problem: Being a Student money is an important factor concerning new gear, I could probably scratch together 800-900€.
Anybody know of any guitar that might fit the bill???
Thanks in advance for helping me out!
Paul
P.s. here is a tune played with the Höfner:
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02-12-2015 04:41 PM
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Nothing in that size will fit your budget. Try contacting Yunzhi Guitars to see if you can commission an acoustic archtop of that size.
Beijing Yunzhi Hengwei Music Instruments Co., Ltd. - Guitar,amplifier
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If you're playing acoustic rhythm you need a solid top guitar. For your budget, you'll want to look into old used guitars. Take your current instrument to your local used guitar shops and A/B test everything.
I have an Eastman 905 non-cutaway and while it's not quite as loud as my gypsy guitar, it's a better "chunk" machine. The neck on it pretty damn skinny, but there are different Eastman necks and I really like the neck on my 403, so YMMV.
I also have a Godin Kingpin and I really wouldn't consider it loud enough to use only acoustically in pretty much any situation outside of recording. I really dig it plugged in though.
OTOH, you could also look into gypsy guitars. Even a cheap gypsy Cigano, properly playerd, will overpower pretty much any archtop you put it up against. Of course, the tone of gypsy guitars tends to be pretty bright without a whole lot of "body" like an archtop has. If you do go for a gypsy guitar, I'd recommend a petite bouche as they tend to be louder out front and they don't feed back when placed in front of a microphone nearly as badly as a grande bouche does.
And finally, they are exceptions to all of the above, so play before you buy!
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You are in Germany.
I suggest you scan ebay.de on a regular basis until a Wolfrum pops up.
Willy Wolfrum built some lovely large-bodied (18") non-cutaway as well as shallow-cutaway carved-top, carved-back archtops in the 1950s, in the Workers' Paradise. His work is very unusual because of the size of his guitars - no other East German builder regularly built 18" archtops.
They are vastly superior to any other comparably priced instruments and are not expensive at all, due to the general ignorance of most jazz guitar enthusiasts regarding East German and West German carved archtops from the 1950s.
Here are a few to give you a general idea:Last edited by Hammertone; 02-12-2015 at 06:34 PM.
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Another guitar to look for is the West German Hoyer Special, from Arnold Hoyer, also an 18" all-carved guitar. But these have deep cutaways, and tend to be a bit more expensive. Still, one does find deals on ebay.de.
Excellent instruments:
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I tried a Vega Duo-tron a while back that sounded great. Big guitar, big sound. On another thread someone mentioned they might sell an old Regal with an 18" bout. I think the Vega was this one;
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OMG. I like big bouts and I can't deny it.
Those are some really cool guitars.
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Fat bottomed girls make the world go 'round!
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Here you go:2015 Webb Seaside
1951 Epiphone Triumph Regent
2015 Webb Seaside
1998 Napolitano Jazz Box
Take your choice!
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OP asked for 18" - 19" archtops.
Those are all 17" archtops.
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Yeah but really Nice Ones,LOL! Any way reread his original post about his $ budget as well. A bit rich I guess.
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That would be the 18" Regal Prince:
Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Originally Posted by Webby
I have a 2005 Epiphone Emperor Regent with a floating pickup and even though it sounds quite nice acoustically I don't think it would be loud enough to cut through a big band since it's got a thick laminated top. However, I have never tried it out with heavy bronze strings and action a 1/2" off the fretboard like Freddy Green's setup so who knows??? It might just do the trick? For the price of a set of strings it might be a fun experiment.
That being said it's a lovely sounding guitar plugged in through an amp and the floating pickup still retains a bit of that acoustic tone which is what I wanted. It also plays quite nicely too with a nice comfy neck.Last edited by OldGuitarPlayer; 02-12-2015 at 10:29 PM.
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The OP mentioned an Epiphone Emperor - probably above the price range, but a good choice. I recently purchased an '41 Epi Deluxe (17+"), and it's got a heck of a lot of punch, plus it knows all the old tunes.
As an aside, some of those Selmer-style, Gypsy guitars are really loud. I play in a trio where the other guitarist has a Del Arte; it will be interesting to compare it to the Deluxe in rehearsal next week...
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For real acoustic archtops, you really have only four choices:
- Loar
- Eastman
- Luthier Built
- Vintage
The Eastman's are perhaps slightly better sounding, but I've never played the top-of-the-line LH700, just many, many LH-600's. But the Eastman's aren't really going for the vintage rhythm guitar market given their aesthetics, or their X-bracing. My non-cutaway 805 is pretty hard to beat for rhythm, especially after nearly 10 years of constant play. Even Michael Peterson of The Freddie Green Web Site was blown away by it, calling it the best "new" guitar he'd played.
Other than those two new builds, you're looking at either a vintage guitar of some kind, or a new luthier built guitar. Even used, a newish luthier built guitar is probably out of your budget. Realistically most vintage stuff would like-wise be out of your price range. A Vega is probably the best-budget guitar you can get, although a beat up Epiphone Triumph would be worth paying a bit extra for. I still lament the Triumph I was offered for a deal, but didn't have the money for at the time.
On the subject of guitar size, looking for an 18" will make things very challenging, as there are far fewer options. There are a few 17" non-cutaway Eastmans out there, but they're hard to find. Truth is, although a bigger guitar can be fuller and louder by itself, one of the ironies of rhythm guitar, is that a 16" guitar can cut-through the band easier because it's more focused-sounding. So I wouldn't necessarily hold out for a big guitar when you only have student money to spend.
My suggestion is buy an Loar and have someone shave the next into a profile you can live with. I usually borrow a Loar 600 when I travel and use that for rhythm guitar with a clip-on lavalier mic.
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Thanks for all of your answers so far!
It's great that you're all tryin' to help me out!
I really like how that Regal Archtop looks! I've never seen one of these before, beautiful instrument! But sadly I don't think I'll find one of them here in germany.
Actually I have already thought about having the neck of either one of the Loars, or the new Gretsch New Yorker reshaped, but of course I'd prefer to buy a guitar that won't need that treatment. And I'm still not sure, if these are the right guitars for me...
My current guitar cuts through the band without any problems, but it lacks some low end. It's a 16" Höfner Model 450, laminated Top.
To My Ears it's a bit tinny sounding I'd say, and I think I'm looking for a sound that will mix better with the upright bass.
I'm not 100% sure about that (since I never got to play an acoustic big Body Archtop), but I thought a bigger body would put me more into that direction.
I know that it's hard to find a guitar wich fits theses specs within my price range, but that's all I can afford for new gear.
Paul
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I use an Epiphone Emperor Regent for big band stuff. Sounds great and is reasonably priced
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The Höfner 450/455/456/457/458/459/460/461/462/463/464/465 are all 16" archtops with fairly bright, punchy sound and not much bass response. Early (typically pre-'57) 457+ models may have carved spruce tops and may have much more bass, but that's really on a guitar-to-guitar basis.
Another option that can be found in your budget range would be a 17" Model 4550. This all-laminated model tends to have better bass response due to its increased body size. The 4550 is found with or without a cutaway or pickups and is definitely within your budget range.
Last edited by Hammertone; 02-14-2015 at 08:48 PM.
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The 17" 468 is a much fancier instrument than the 4550 and almost always comes with a cutaway, but it is essentially the same as the 4550 except for the level of trim. Very early ones have carved tops - but most of them are all-laminated. This is typically beyond your budget range, but one finds deals now and again on ebay.de.
Last edited by Hammertone; 02-14-2015 at 09:04 PM.
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Okay guys, time for an update!
I might have found the right guitar now.
I just won an ebay-auction for an Eastman made Baton Rouge Archtop, have a look:
Eastman Baton Rouge Jazzgitarre - vollmassiv | eBay
As the Seller states it's a prototype model, that never went into production.
Price was just right as you can see, and if I find out I don't like it in the end I can still return it.
It's not quite as wide as the guitars Freddie Green used, but I guess it might do the Job though!
L5 dimensions (17"), all solid woods, and nitro-finish!
What do you guys think about it?
Can't wait to hold it in my hands!
Paul
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Might be cool. Eastman's are generally pretty "polite" spunding acoustically, IMO.
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my old hofner president acoustic
is the loudest guitar ive ever tried out
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