ES-125 copy from 50s/60s

[Keira Witherkay]

hi ya everyone...time to tap into our collective knowledge ....

can anyone identify this ES 125 copy ....i aquired yesterday

i say copy cos it has no serial number...NO LOGO or FON number i checked inside as well...

HOWEVER it's a really close copy of GIBSON es125 ... but i can see it's way old....

but seems to have a lot of Gibson specs like the mahogony neck with similar headstock and heel BUT no logo ...pickup is a P90 which has UC 455 printed on the black plastic pickup cover but nothing else ...not a clue to see what this is....

so some help will be appreciated.... judging by the huge cap in the electronic harness and aged pots it must be late 50's or 60's copy ..........who was copying the ES in those years ?

anyway it plays well ...obvious neck reset was done sometime ....
and the fretboard wear means it was a player for many years ...and hopefully many more when i get the harness replaced

here are some pics

[Keira Witherkay]

someone in a moment of infinite wisdom decided to paint the back black

[SamBooka]

That wiring harness looks too close to the original.

I am going to say it is a late 50s that has been refin but is actually a 125.

What is missing? The finish, the knobs, and the tuners.

The rest looks about right.. especially the pickup. A bumble bee cap is why I am saying late 50s although it could be early 60s. I have a 64 that has the serial on the headstock.

FONs can be hard to find/see on these guitars.

Looks legit to me.

[SamBooka]

What are the codes on the pots?

[Engine Swap]

Don't know what it is - very cool!

you might be able to get an approximate date by looking at the date codes on the pots.

[Engine Swap]

Jinx!!!!!

[Hammertone]

It looks like a Gibson to me - the headstock would have been stripped when the guitar was de-finished.
It wouldn't surprise me to find one of these with no stamps inside.
The tuners are wrong but everything else looks right.

[Keira Witherkay]

re the date code on the pots... i can't see any writing or dates on them ??? i did look...where would they be on the back ???

but really who in their right mind strips a headstock and removes a logo especially an iconic one....

thanks for the comments so far ...good to have the knowledge out there on the forum to draw from ...thanks guys

[fws6]

>.... judging by the huge cap

dont get rid of that ugle ass oldfashioned cap until youve checked the bay....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1957-Gibson-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar-022-Sprague-Bumble-Bee-Capacitor-/151438824914

[Little Jay]

Yep, looks like a genuine ES125, just stripped.

Nice! You can get a Gibson headstock veneer for it:

[John A.]

re the date code on the pots... i can't see any writing or dates on them ??? i did look...where would they be on the back ???

but really who in their right mind strips a headstock and removes a logo especially an iconic one....

thanks for the comments so far ...good to have the knowledge out there on the forum to draw from ...thanks guys

50's ES 125's and 150's weren't considered "iconic" or collectible by anybody until pretty recently. For most of the last 50 + years, they were cheap, entry-level models that people modified/personalized/experimented on/abused in all kinds of ways without thought to preserving them for re-sale or posterity.

John

[oldane]

Apart from the stripped finish and headstock veneer. that one does indeed look very Gibsonesque to me. The shapes, proportions and details all whisper "Gibson" (for example the shape of the neck heel).

Many years ago, I had a chance to buy such an old 1950s ES125 with the finish stripped off when I was in London. The price was VERY reasonable and it played and sounded great despite the somewhat roadworn look. But I was a student back then and didn't even had the little money that guitar cost. I have regretted it ever since.

I think you have got a great guitar there. A new harness and maybe a new set of tuners and it's ready for gigging.

[rsclosson]

Something tells me that, with a little TLC, this would be a killer player.

[pingu]

nice find K

i wonder whats going on with that bridge saddle ... the aluminium piece , never seen that before.

[pingu]

the fretboard wear means it was a player for many years ...and hopefully many more when i get the harness replaced

whats up with the harness ? i'd keep it if poss

[old tube]

Looks like a late '50's ES-125.

Pickup and wiring are right, those look like '57/'58 Centralab pots. The Date codes will be on the side of the body of the pot. The P90 and cover are right.

Tailpiece, truss rod cover and bridge base are right. It would have had a plain black headstock facia with a Gold transfer Gibson Logo. It may have had a thin holly veneer painted black or could have been black straight onto the mahogany. As someone said these were Gibson's basic hollow body guitar, frequently have no identifying serial or FON.

Those pots and the Sprague cap (assuming they are 500k pots and the cap is 0.022uF, as it appears to be) are worth a great deal of money as they are the same as would have been used in Les Pauls of the era.

[Keira Witherkay]

wow thanks guys ... for all the info ...

and about those pots and cap ... i woulda just kept the pickup and tossed them for a modern harness... awesome i will see if my tech can connect it up for me ... so thanks for that ...i would never have known...guess the benefit of an online forum like this....

and yes i am a player NOT a collector so i aim to get it in playable condition (which it already is just the wiring has broken off various solder points but thats no biggie )

[Keira Witherkay]

a quick update i found the date code on the pots according to internet as the pot number was 134805 which broken down 134 means made Central Lab the 8 is for 1958 and the 05 is for month of may ....

also i got the old pots and pickup working ....UNFORTUNATELY the bumble bee caps wire was very brittle and broke off right at the plastic cap ...so not sure if it can be saved ......beyond my knowledge ...but i replaced it with a modern cap i had lying around and now the guitar is functional with volume and tone pots working ...........

yay for that ... as i really wanted that old P90 to be functional...and not too fussed re the pots and cap ...so just so far losing the cap is a good day ....

so with the pots dated may 1958 i assume the guitar must be late 58 or 59 since ...

anyway least the codes help confirm it's a stripped down refinished Gibson and not some clone ... now only if i could find that FON number

thanks for all the help ...

[Greentone]

Almost every 125 I have seen in recent years has had its tuners, bridge, and tailpiece used for restoration of more popular models. Seems to be the case here...along with the headstock veneer. Gotta be a Gibson.