70s Guild AA with a CC Pickup

[Archie]

Bought a guitar today off a guy who had some great guitars. The guitar I bought will feature in its own NGD bot thought I would post the others here and some Phone pics of mine.

So yes this is a 70's Guild AA with a CC!!

An 80's byrdland

An Ibanez 2460

And an Eccleshall 'Londoner'

[Archie]

1981 Eccleshall 'Londoner' Solid hand carved top and back Johnny Smith Style 'cello' Guitar, with BJB Johny Smith Style Pickup.

Totally unique and hand made for a friend of Hank Marvins (picture of Hank playing it is coming later). Had to go and see this as it wasn't too far and I love seeing what Uk luthiers are up too. Normally I'm disappointed but here I found a truly great arhctop, that can compete with the best.

A little bit of sloppiness but nothing I haven't seen on a top end Gibson (thats not bashing btw ;-).
Its now 34 years old, everything is tight, no cracks, no sinkage nothing and the tone is superb. The woods sound like old 50's wood and I would be happy to compare it to any golden age L5, l7 type.

Eccleshall started life making Violins for the most highly regarded company in England and Europe (at the time). Then went on to making acoustics for the likes of Bowie and then electrics. This was a bit of a sideways project for him and he did really well, if you consider this was before Bob's 'Making An Archtop'

I guess those days making Violins really payed off. The label refers to it as a Cello guitar. I will do some sound clips when i take some better pics tomorrow.

Anyone know anything about the pick-up? Please let me know. It sounded really good but thats all I know.





The pick-up actually damaged the top as it wasn't felted underneath, which is a real shame. The pick-up is desrpibed in the original receipt as a BJB? The crude wooden veneer placed on-top was to stop static, which it apparently suffered from.

[Archie]

I'm going to add a tortious shell L5 type pick-gaurd and a Gibson Pick-gaurd mount.

Was actually thinking of keeping it all acoustic as it has wonderful tone. If I do that, the top will need to get seen to, so might put the pickup back on but felted this time, or suspended better.

This wasn't a wise collector/dealer purchase but I wanted an L5 type to replace my Guild X700 when I sell it and this guitar will more than do that.

[Archtop Guy]

Nice guitar! The pickup is a Gibson BJB (for Bruce J. Bolen) a player and rep for Gibson. They're a little hotter than a Johnny Smith. I have one on my Triggs D'A. Nice pickup. If that guitar sounds as good as she looks,she's a keeper.Thanks for the photos.

[fws6]

You made some nice pics there buddy

great fun

what is the CC pickup though ?ndoesnt look to be a Gibson ??

[Archie]

Nice guitar! The pickup is a Gibson BJB (for Bruce J. Bolen) a player and rep for Gibson. They're a little hotter than a Johnny Smith. I have one on my Triggs D'A. Nice pickup. If that guitar sounds as good as she looks,she's a keeper.Thanks for the photos.

Thanks Archtop

There was a thread on them recently I recall, I will go and dig through that too.

Actually she sounds better than she looks. Really quite stunning, I wouldn't have been pushed that far on a small Uk builder if it didn't. It also helps that its had time to prove itself structurally. Being 34 years old if anything was going to go wrong, it would have done so way before now.

Will post some sound clips tomorrow and some studio quality pics.

[Max405]

Wow. You are in archtop heaven! How do they play? The Londoner has really great action.
Good for you, although, you might not sleep tonite!
Joe D

[Klatu]

Those look great, so which one did you buy?

[Patrick2]

The Londoner is beautiful. The fit and finish work looks to be impeccable, except for the fret ends. To your knowledge, was there a refret?. The binding seams are flawless. You mentioned that this luthier started out making violins . . and made this guitar before Benedetto's book. Keep in mind, Benedetto too started out making violins.

HATE the pick guard! Glad you removed it. The spruce is undoubtedly European cello spruce. I'd imaging the acoustic voice of the guitar is beautiful. The frets seem to be all but gone. You'll need a refret, if I'm seeing the photos correctly.

I'm seeing some binding cracks at the fret ends.

( Uh-oh . . someone forgot to snip 1/16" off the end of the fret tangs. )

If you do a refret, the slight cracks in the binding could be repaired along with it, if it bothers you . . but, you probably already know that. This guitar intrigues me. I'd get the tail piece insert out of there and replace it with a plain ebony insert, without the initials or those three goofy dots.

It's very surprising that for a craftsman who started out as a violin maker, the is absolutely no elevation of the finger board. But, I guess he had his reasons for that.

Congrats on your NGsD.

[Archie]

The Londoner is beautiful. The fit and finish work looks to be impeccable, except for the fret ends. To your knowledge, was there a refret?. The binding seams are flawless. You mentioned that this luthier started out making violins . . and made this guitar before Benedetto's book. Keep in mind, Benedetto too started out making violins.

HATE the pick guard! Glad you removed it. The spruce is undoubtedly European cello spruce. I'd imaging the acoustic voice of the guitar is beautiful. The frets seem to be all but gone. You'll need a refret, if I'm seeing the photos correctly.

I'm seeing some binding cracks at the fret ends.

( Uh-oh . . someone forgot to snip 1/16" off the end of the fret tangs. )

If you do a refret, the slight cracks in the binding could be repaired along with it, if it bothers you . . but, you probably already know that. This guitar intrigues me. I'd get the tail piece insert out of there and replace it with a plain ebony insert, without the initials or those three goofy dots.

It's very surprising that for a craftsman who started out as a violin maker, the is absolutely no elevation of the finger board. But, I guess he had his reasons for that.

Congrats on your NGsD.

Ha ha yes the 13th, 14th, 15t have cracks so I guess he could be 3/4 bothered ;-)

Totally agree with everything you say. I will remove the ebony insert from the tail piece, not sure about the tail piece all together. It does give it more of a european look but I'm not a fan of the 'wooden' tail piece. Plus it will still have go den/brass coloured tuner buttons.

In regards to the fingerboard elevation again I agree although not sure why he would do it the way he did? Cost saving measure, or genuine design choice? Its usually something you see on Yamah AE1200's. Granted its not as attractive as a raised finger board extension, though o the other hand, guess what? It isn't ski ramping like 99.9% of raised extensions.

Yes the frets are all but gone, however they seem to have been recently dressed as the guitar is prepped for sale. The action is stupidly low and it wont buzz even when playing with you thumb.

Yeh tone is very open indeed. The best way I can describe it is, it already sounds like its plugged in.

What is European cello wood?

BTW did you see the carving on the to of that Byrdland? Look how much recurve is on it and the hight of the arch. never seen one like it. Thats one hell of a top and it was vert resonant.

[Franz 1997]

That AA with the CC installation has been floating round for years; I remember seeing it advertised before, and also being surprised by the asking price then.

What's interesting is that the ""CC"" seems to feature adjustable pole pieces, which anyone who's tried a straight-bar CC with a wound G will recognise as potentially an improvement. I'd be interested to know how well this one works to give a balanced response. Daniel Slaman has recently started to offer adjustable CC pickups, but this design pre-dates him by several if not many years. Shame about the plastic surround

I prefer TOMs for electric guitars, but somehow that AA is crying out for an ebony saddle

Thanks for posting. I'm not clear; which one(s) have you bought?

PS European Cello wood is high-grade european spruce i.e. slow- grown

[Archie]

That AA with the CC installation has been floating round for years; I remember seeing it advertised before, and also being surprised by the asking price then.

What's interesting is that the ""CC"" seems to feature adjustable pole pieces, which anyone who's tried a straight-bar CC with a wound G will recognise as potentially an improvement. I'd be interested to know how well this one works to give a balanced response. Daniel Slaman has recently started to offer adjustable CC pickups, but this design pre-dates him by several if not many years. Shame about the plastic surround

I prefer TOMs for electric guitars, but somehow that AA is crying out for an ebony saddle

Thanks for posting. I'm not clear; which one(s) have you bought?

PS European Cello wood is high-grade european spruce i.e. slow- grown

In regards to the Guild your right, I wondered if something like that would have gone unnoticed and yes, if prices were high (which they were), then its probably because it was advertised through the likes of Rare & Vintage (ex Denmark st) who would happily make you pay as much as you could and then some.

I grabbed the Eccleshall 'Londener' The Cello Guitar. It was little bit more than I wanted to pay but again the tone was so overwhelming and I subsequently discovered it has a BJB pickup attached in perfect working order, so I'm happy.

[jazzbow]

In regards to the Guild your right, I wondered if something like that would have gone unnoticed and yes, if prices were high (which they were), then its probably because it was advertised through the likes of Rare & Vintage (ex Denmark st) who would happily make you pay as much as you could and then some.

I have a funny story about Andys Guitar workshop in Denmark st.

I was in the market for a selmer styled acoustic. I did some research on whose the best builder and whose the best manufacturer. I went to Hanks first and played a Gitaine. It sounded good and was impressed with its tone. Next I went next door to Andys and asked if they had any selmer type guitars to try. They took me upstairs to their acoustic parlour and that's where I found a Le Voi small hole and one of Le Voi's rarer flat tops. I played the selmer type and was totally knocked out by its tone, projection and craftsmanship! Just wow.

I said my thanks and went back to work (Bond st).

That night I did my research on Mr Le Voi and got his number.

The next day I rang him up and spent a good half hour chatting and in the end he said he'll make me one for £1300 with case. I said I'd need another go on the one in Andys to make sure.

So off I went, first to try the Gitaine as it was cheaper- and then to Andys for the final verdict.

I saw the same salesman at Andys, he was all over me, sensing a sale he took me back upstairs left me for 10 minutes, came back with a coffee and we talked Le Voi.

I had a go on the flat top, it had a selmer tonal quality to the highs but more bass. But the selmer type just blew me away.

Then the conversation turned to money and would I be interested in buying this particular guitar?
Well I'm looking for a semer type, what's the price? I said.
"£1600" was the reply.
I showed no emotion but inside I was "Yeah, Foxtrot Oscar mate!"
"Ok, I'll throw in a hard case."
Yeah, big deal! I thought.
"Ok, a hard case and a soft carry case".
Nope, not biting. Then the big breath and the next and final offer-
"Ok mate, you drive a hard bargain, the guitar, the hard case, the soft case all for £1500!"
I smiled and said "Sorry pal, I spoke with John this morning and he's offered me a new build with case for £1300!"
10 minutes later I was walking back to work with my Le Voi and both cases for £1300.
The twitch in his face, the slumped shoulders. Oh dear, naughty Jazzbow.

But then again I have history with Andys. Money grabbing noonies!

Try out a Le Voi selmer type, they are made in Lincoln. He does a large hole long scale hybrid which I believe is warmer sounding.

[Archie]

I have a funny story about Andys Guitar workshop in Denmark st.

I was in the market for a selmer styled acoustic. I did some research on whose the best builder and whose the best manufacturer. I went to Hanks first and played a Gitaine. It sounded good and was impressed with its tone. Next I went next door to Andys and asked if they had any selmer type guitars to try. They took me upstairs to their acoustic parlour and that's where I found a Le Voi small hole and one of Le Voi's rarer flat tops. I played the selmer type and was totally knocked out by its tone, projection and craftsmanship! Just wow.

I said my thanks and went back to work (Bond st).

That night I did my research on Mr Le Voi and got his number.

The next day I rang him up and spent a good half hour chatting and in the end he said he'll make me one for £1300 with case. I said I'd need another go on the one in Andys to make sure.

So off I went, first to try the Gitaine as it was cheaper- and then to Andys for the final verdict.

I saw the same salesman at Andys, he was all over me, sensing a sale he took me back upstairs left me for 10 minutes, came back with a coffee and we talked Le Voi.

I had a go on the flat top, it had a selmer tonal quality to the highs but more bass. But the selmer type just blew me away.

Then the conversation turned to money and would I be interested in buying this particular guitar?
Well I'm looking for a semer type, what's the price? I said.
"£1600" was the reply.
I showed no emotion but inside I was "Yeah, Foxtrot Oscar mate!"
"Ok, I'll throw in a hard case."
Yeah, big deal! I thought.
"Ok, a hard case and a soft carry case".
Nope, not biting. Then the big breath and the next and final offer-
"Ok mate, you drive a hard bargain, the guitar, the hard case, the soft case all for £1500!"
I smiled and said "Sorry pal, I spoke with John this morning and he's offered me a new build with case for £1300!"
10 minutes later I was walking back to work with my Le Voi and both cases for £1300.
The twitch in his face, the slumped shoulders. Oh dear, naughty Jazzbow.

But then again I have history with Andys. Money grabbing noonies!

Try out a Le Voi selmer type, they are made in Lincoln. He does a large hole long scale hybrid which I believe is warmer sounding.

Nice story.

Actually I couldn't help but have a small fist pump on hearing Rare & Vintage were going. Shops like that have been able to simply rip people off for way too long. I meet a lot of collectors as I travel the country and when they say they got 'this' from R&V I instantly feel sorry for them. Even more so when they ask me what I think its worth.

End of the day nice work if you can get but looks like that vacancy is now gone. Good riddance I say.

[Franz 1997]

Nice story.

Actually I couldn't help but have a small fist pump on hearing Rare & Vintage were going. Shops like that have been able to simply rip people off for way too long. I meet a lot of collectors as I travel the country and when they say they got 'this' from R&V I instantly feel sorry for them. Even more so when they ask me what I think its worth.

End of the day nice work if you can get but looks like that vacancy is now gone. Good riddance I say.

Now you come to mention it I think it was in V&R, they were asking about 3k (£) if I remember correctly.

I have only bought a couple of guitars in the infamous Denmark St ( in London), since the golden 70s period when the walls were festooned with vintage gibsons and fenders at around £200. Don't want to knock any particular shop, but I was looking for an x500 at the time. I found one, the 'salesman' mentioned a (v high) price, and for some reason I offered 60% of that price, probably around what I thought it was worth. The guy accepted immediately.

I learned a lesson from that.....

[Archie]

Now you come to mention it I think it was in V&R, they were asking about 3k (£) if I remember correctly.

I have only bought a couple of guitars in the infamous Denmark St ( in London), since the golden 70s period when the walls were festooned with vintage gibsons and fenders at around £200. Don't want to knock any particular shop, but I was looking for an x500 at the time. I found one, the 'salesman' mentioned a (v high) price, and for some reason I offered 60% of that price, probably around what I thought it was worth. The guy accepted immediately.

I learned a lesson from that.....

Yes and I take it from the speed he offered, you could have gone lower. He could of at least made it seem like you were screwing him lol

BTW your right about the price ;-)

Try a couple hundred less.

[vinnyv1k]

Congrats ATH !!! Thanks for sharing the great pics. Could look at beautiful archtop guitars all day. A close second to looking at beautiful women :=)

[Patrick2]

Ha ha yes the 13th, 14th, 15t have cracks so I guess he could be 3/4 bothered ;-)

Totally agree with everything you say. I will remove the ebony insert from the tail piece, not sure about the tail piece all together. It does give it more of a european look but I'm not a fan of the 'wooden' tail piece. Plus it will still have go den/brass coloured tuner buttons.

In regards to the fingerboard elevation again I agree although not sure why he would do it the way he did? Cost saving measure, or genuine design choice? Its usually something you see on Yamah AE1200's. Granted its not as attractive as a raised finger board extension, though o the other hand, guess what? It isn't ski ramping like 99.9% of raised extensions.

Yes the frets are all but gone, however they seem to have been recently dressed as the guitar is prepped for sale. The action is stupidly low and it wont buzz even when playing with you thumb.

Yeh tone is very open indeed. The best way I can describe it is, it already sounds like its plugged in.

What is European cello wood?

BTW did you see the carving on the to of that Byrdland? Look how much recurve is on it and the hight of the arch. never seen one like it. Thats one hell of a top and it was vert resonant.

Well, I'd like to applaud you for having seen 100% of all raised finger board extentions. I'm, assuming that you have . . because .. how else would you be able to make such a claim that 99% of them suffer from the ski ramping tail syndrom as you stated? Unless, of course . . you're exaggerating?? Nah . . not ol' ArchtopHeaven. He'd never do that. I too have not seen 100% of all guitars made with an elevated fret board. But, I'd bet a swift kick in the ass, in broad daylight in a display window at Harrods that it's less than 10%

European cello spruce, as Franz 1997 pointed out, is the creme de la creme in the eyes of many top master luthiers, including the much revered Bob Benedetto. It's known for it's beautiful full rich warm tonal character. It's also known for it's very quick responsiveness to a pick stroke. If you've ever played a Manhattan . . you'll know what I mean. But, like everything related to one's choices for and opinions of tone . . it's a subjective thing. Oh, by the way . . European spruce is what was used exclusively on that "piece of furniture" . . aka the Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award. I'm just sayin' . . .

The photos don't really show a good representation of the arch top graduation on the Byrdland.

Regarding the tail piece, if it were my choice to make . . I'd not replace the tail piece. I think it looks great. I particularly like it because, like the L5 tail piece, it doesn't have a hinge at the break angle at the rim. Hinges are a potential problem . . I'm sure you know that . . unless you buy an ABM - Muller, Germany hinged tail piece. I also like that yours has an opening for an ebony insert. Just not the one that's currently in it.

[Archie]

Well, I'd like to applaud you for having seen 100% of all raised finger board extentions. I'm, assuming that you have . . because .. how else would you be able to make such a claim that 99% of them suffer from the ski ramping tail syndrom as you stated? Unless, of course . . you're exaggerating?? Nah . . not ol' ArchtopHeaven. He'd never do that. I too have not seen 100% of all guitars made with an elevated fret board. But, I'd bet a swift kick in the ass, in broad daylight in a display window at Harrods that it's less than 10%

European cello spruce, as Franz 1997 pointed out, is the creme de la creme in the eyes of many top master luthiers, including the much revered Bob Benedetto. It's known for it's beautiful full rich warm tonal character. It's also known for it's very quick responsiveness to a pick stroke. If you've ever played a Manhattan . . you'll know what I mean. But, like everything related to one's choices for and opinions of tone . . it's a subjective thing. Oh, by the way . . European spruce is what was used exclusively on that "piece of furniture" . . aka the Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award. I'm just sayin' . . .

The photos don't really show a good representation of the arch top graduation on the Byrdland.

Regarding the tail piece, if it were my choice to make . . I'd not replace the tail piece. I think it looks great. I particularly like it because, like the L5 tail piece, it doesn't have a hinge at the break angle at the rim. Hinges are a potential problem . . I'm sure you know that . . unless you buy an ABM - Muller, Germany hinged tail piece. I also like that yours has an opening for an ebony insert. Just not the one that's currently in it.

Right its funny because your description of how cellow spruce should sound, is exactly how this guitar sounds.

In regards to the tail piece theres an issue. Like yourself I though that was an opening for the ebony insert, its not. The ebony is screwed/bolted on and those dots cover the screw heads, which I agree I don't overly like. I could take the tail piece off and cut a hole, that would work

Ok I over exaggerate you under exaggerate. Lets say at least 51% Giving me controlling share :-)

[vinnyv1k]

I love L5 tailpieces until when I use heavy gauge strings and the low E string get stuck in the slot and won't come out. Then I am swearing like a sailor because I have to remove the whole tailpiece to get the string out. On a hinged one you just lift up the tailpiece and yank it out with some needle nose. But yes L5 tailpieces don't crack like a hinged can.

[Archie]

I love L5 tailpieces until when I use heavy gauge strings and the low E string get stuck in the slot and won't come out. Then I am swearing like a sailor because I have to remove the whole tailpiece to get the string out. On a hinged one you just lift up the tailpiece and yank it out with some needle nose. But yes L5 tailpieces don't crack like a hinged can.

TBH I've never had a hinged tail piece crack on me and they have been the majority of tail pieces I have used. So its not something thats been on my radar, until Para mentioned his going on the Ibanez.

I will agree though, ever since they staters making them out of Korea and China, the quality of the metal (if you could call it that) is poor at best.

I think Ibanez will have learnt their lesson though.

[Patrick2]

[QUOTE=ArchtopHeaven;494966]Right its funny because your description of how cellow spruce should sound, is exactly how this guitar sounds.

In regards to the tail piece theres an issue. Like yourself I though that was an opening for the ebony insert, its not. The ebony is screwed/bolted on and those dots cover the screw heads, which I agree I don't overly like. I could take the tail piece off and cut a hole, that would work

Ok I over exaggerate you under exaggerate. Lets say at least 51% Giving me controlling share :-)

Well, the kinder and gentler way of saying it would be . . "the incident of tail lift on an elevated finger board is known to be greater than it is on a guitar without the elevated board". (And, as you know . . I'm all about "kinder and gentler".)

I'd have to assume that once you removed the tail piece insert you'd be able to come up with a very simple way to permanently afix an ebony insert in its place without the screws. Super Glue works wonders!!

[Patrick2]

TBH I've never had a hinged tail piece crack on me and they have been the majority of tail pieces I have used. So its not something thats been on my radar, until Para mentioned his going on the Ibanez.

I will agree though, ever since they staters making them out of Korea and China, the quality of the metal (if you could call it that) is poor at best.

I think Ibanez will have learnt their lesson though.

It's not only Koprea and China. Metal fatigue caused by stress doesn't really care where the component is made. I can tell you horror stories of the Schaller bail type tail piece that Heritage was using back in the mid 1990s. They got a batch of them from Schaller, Germany that suffered premature fatigue. There were reports of these things "exploding" while hanging on the walls at dealers. The string tension actually pulled the hinge apart. The dealers said it made a loud scary noise when iot popped . . then when they went over to check out what happened, they found the guitar with the strings and the top portion of the tail piece just dangling . . and quite a bit of damage to the top of the guitar. Schaller did recognize and correct the problem. The hinged tail pieces are also sometimes, rightly or wrongly, pointed to as the suspect in sympathetic vibration or rattle. (Techs usually do that when they can't find the real culprit. lolol

[Archie]

It's not only Koprea and China. Metal fatigue caused by stress doesn't really care where the component is made. I can tell you horror stories of the Schaller bail type tail piece that Heritage was using back in the mid 1990s. They got a batch of them from Schaller, Germany that suffered premature fatigue. There were reports of these things "exploding" while hanging on the walls at dealers. The string tension actually pulled the hinge apart. The dealers said it made a loud scary noise when iot popped . . then when they went over to check out what happened, they found the guitar with the strings and the top portion of the tail piece just dangling . . and quite a bit of damage to the top of the guitar. Schaller did recognize and correct the problem. The hinged tail pieces are also sometimes, rightly or wrongly, pointed to as the suspect in sympathetic vibration or rattle. (Techs usually do that when they can't find the real culprit. lolol

Right, well since you mentioned the Germans your probably right. They are usually pretty good at that kind of thing, just like I am at stereotyping them.

I had my first Epiphone Elitist 'Chet Atkins' arrive with a Bigsby B7 hinge that had cracked and left it sitting on top of the body, with the nasty broken bracket also sitting on the top. Frankly I was lucky it hadn't re-covered me new top.

[Archie]

I'm not trying to be arty, It's an iPhone. My camera is on the blink (excuse the pun).