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I'm a rock guy who is getting into jazz. I've played guitar for about 24 years. I don't own an archtop and I am quite curious about them.
I have a semi-hollow and I'm a telecaster guy. I know that jazz players use those. I'm trying to decide if I want to add an archtop into my collection.
My semi-hollow is of the 339 variety. I think I could use my 52RI tele for jazz. Haven't tried it yet.
I think I would like something that sounds deeper than my 339. I don't have a ton of money to invest in an archtop. Maybe about $800 - $1000 US dollars.
Any tips I should know when shopping for an archtop? I've bought a lot of solid body guitars, but have never shopped for a fully hollow electric guitar.
I'm based in Hong Kong, so the 2nd hand market here isn't great.
I am also curious about small solid state amps. I play and own Mesa/Boogie and Fender tube amps. I'm thinking about getting an amp that is small, portable, and reliable.
All suggestions welcome! Thanks!
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11-28-2014 01:08 PM
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Go to YouTube and search for Ed Bickert who plays jazz on a Tele and gets a gorgeous tone. Also look for Ted Greene who also played a Tele primarily. In fact, your 52 RI was based on Ted's original 1952 Tele- that's the one Fender measured. Also Mike Stern. As for semi-hollows, check out Grant Green, John Scofield and Ben Monder (among others).
An archtop is not necessary, of course, but they are fun. You can dip your toes with an inexpensive Ibanez archtop (readily found in most metro areas on Craigslist for $500 or less) that will sound good and will play great. Ibanez makes the best necks in the guitar biz, IMHO.
Also, EQing for jazz is different than for rock. Roll down the treble, bring up the mids and the bass which will fatten and deepen the tone a lot.Last edited by Cunamara; 11-28-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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Honestly, i think you have two great jazz guitars already. Archtops come in many flavors...id dive into learning, research what players who get tones you like use, and save up some more scratch so you're not just buying an archtop to have an archtop.
As for small solid state amps, henriksen and mambo if ypu got a little dough, a roland cube or zt club if you're looking to stay pretty cheap.
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Sounds like you're good to go.
Neck pickup, volume & tone rolled back, maybe heavier strings . . .
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Why not just start with some heavier strings and work on technique for getting a bigger tone from what you have. Just picking a bit closer to the neck will get up a bigger tone. Plus it's more about the notes and the feel than the gear.
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The guys ahead of me hit it right on the nose. Learn the craft 1st. Then build your gear around your playing. Save your money. Experiment with your tele (I am actually looking to buy one myself, for jazz). Your 339 will give you plenty of deep tone. Heck, my Les Paul gives me all the jazz vibe I will really ever need.
JD
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My teacher (who is arguably the top jazz guitar player in my city, among our many excellent players) plays on a 339, so you have what you "need"...but if you want something else then that is cool. I have two 16" jazz boxes.
As for amps, if I could start over from scratch, I would get a solid state head and then a small 8" cabinet, then later a 10" or 12" cabinet as your actual playing needs develop. Combos are attractive for grab-and-go, but there is literally only one extra cable involved if you go head-to-cabinet. Maybe the only downside of the head/cabinet route is that most good cabinets are closed-back, whereas sometimes open-back works better if for example you can't position your cabinet in a place that allows the drummer to hear you.
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Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.
Ok, I will try first with the gear I have. I also know that I have a lot of learning to do. I've been at it for the jazz stuff for about 2 years and took some lessons. So I am working on my playing for the style.
With regards to some suggestions above for checking out different strings.
I use d'addario half round 12's with my 339. Do I need to go bigger? Totally flat wound?
I normally use Rotosound 10's for standard and 11's for e-flat tuning on the telecaster. Any suggestions for what I should checkout for a "jazzier" sound for strings on the tele? I'd use Rotosounds on the 339 too if they made a half round set. I like Rotosounds a lot, but then again, they might not be the best thing for jazz. I'm looking forward to some opinions regarding strings.
With regards to amps. I own quite a few combos and heads, but all tube. So I'm not a newbie to the head vs. combo stuff. I was curious about the solid state thing as I mentioned earlier. I've seen the DV Mark Little Jazz thread. Got very curious about the Roland Cubes since they are cheap and seem to be generally liked by jazz guys. I know I can dial jazz tones from my tube amps. But most of my gear weighs a lot. Something tells me that showing up to a jazz jam session with a Mesa half stack would not go over so well in the "jazz" side of things. Also, anyone who has owned or used Mesa combos knows how heavy those things are.
Thanks again!
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Originally Posted by dtfan4ever
You're all set gear wise, just order a case of Top Ramin, another of coffee, and a stack of Miles CD's and lock yourself in your woodshed. It's all about shed time now.
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I think your string gauges are OK. I use elixir 12 rounds on a couple of guitars & they make plenty of jazz sounds. I love the thomastic 13 bebops, but I don't think they automatically make a guitar sound jazzy.
What are your smaller tube amps? if you have something like a Fender Princeton, Deluxe Reverb, or Superchamp, in your amp collection, that would be a great place to get started on tone IMO. And I'm sure the Boogies will do it too!
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You can get excellent jazz tones (whatever that is) from you current gear. But an archtop is an archtop, imo no other guitar type can get that sound. But I would use the ones you have right now and in a few years you'll know what you like and don't like about a jazz sound and see if you need one... lots of people don't. I followed the opposite strategy, sold all my non-archtop guitars.
If you're just beginning you probably don't have yet a very clear vision of what you're seeking yet. Now is more about practice than gear, no doubt.
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You've been playing Jazz for 2 years now? After playing rock for 24?
Hold the phone. Who am I to take all the fun out this for you. I change my opinion effective now.
Buying stuff is great, if you can swing it. Its good for the economy and it helps to have folks moving gear around. There are enough great boxes out there to try out right at your price point. Eastman AR371's are nice. Ibanez and Washburn make great archtops that are inexpensive. If you get tired of playing the copies of the originals, you can always sell them and buy the originals.
You will never stop wanting to own the best you can afford. Even with all the guitars I have on my wall, I am still trying to figure out how I can swing a certain Guild Johnny Smith Award that is out there right now. I am on a Johnny Smith kick once again and how cool would it be to finish off Golden Earrings with the legends original Signature a foot an a half from my head...
Have fun. We need people buying stuff.
Joe D
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So, here's an update to my saga, I am now an owner of a Godin Kingpin. I found a beautiful guitar and just felt like I had arrived "home" with the fully hollow archtop. I can't believe it took me this long to start looking into having one in the "barn". HAHA
What a versatile guitar this thing is! I played it for hours today and just enjoyed it tremendously. I see another archtop in my future as I start to move away from playing loud rock music. Don't get me wrong, I still love playing rock and my telecasters and sevenstring guitars. (read -> metalhead turned mellow)
Anyway, I think I'll have to explore some solid state amps next.
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Well, congrats--I'm probably the biggest Kingpin fan around here...I have "nicer" guitars, and my Kingpin still gets played a whole lot.
Yeah, try some solid state amps, but also, that P90 sounds just fabulous through a small tube amp.
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I saw this the other day.
Metal to Jazz = Creativity running wild.
Great Guitar. I am glad you found something that you liked. I am praying you got the black one..
Joe D
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I got the Cognac Burst with two P90's and was planning to go back to get the single P90 (in black) model as well. They didn't have the floating pickup model at the shop, but I am really curious about that one.
The Cognac burst with the two P90's is nice with the cutaway, but the single P90 version resonates a lot better. I really felt comfortable with both. The single P90 isn't sold with a case here, so I will bring a case with me when I go back to the shop.
This has been a lot of fun!Last edited by dtfan4ever; 12-19-2014 at 11:34 AM.
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So I'd like to throw a question out here in line with the OP....making a transition myself! Guitar wise I have been playing my Epi Sheraton II with tone and volume rolled back and round wounds and I get flubby bass. Instinct says use a compressor - thoughts?
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What do you mean by "flubby bass"? Maybe point us to a recorded example of that, and a recorded example of a tone you'd like to get closer to, and we can diagnose/prescribe ... Originally Posted by lmrizzo
In the meantime ... I play jazz on a semi-hollow with roundwound 10s. To get a more even sound across all strings, I lowered the bass side of the pick-up; on some amps I wind up turning the bass pretty far down as well. Volume and tone setting on the guitar vary, but tone is usually somewhere between 5 and 8 (never rolled all the way off, usually not wide open).
John
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what pickups are in the Sheraton?
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For a little more $1000 you can have a mostly custom archtop made. HOTMAN HANDMADE GUITAR - Handmade Jazz guitar supplier in
For around $1000 you could also get one from Yunzhi (PM me if you need a contact) and maybe a little less as they often have a pretty good array of standard models for sale.
The reason to do this is to get a hand carved, solid wood instrument. With a floating pickup you'll have a nice acoustic instrument. In addition to allowing for use as such, this lets you to choose to amplify it using acoustic transducers. With a built in pickup you'll still get nicer acoustic tones than you would with a laminate.
The only downside is that you'll want to replace the pickups and pots.
As others have said, you don't have to have it. However, you may find it inspires you when you start getting archtop tones out of your Fender amp.
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Hey spook, how much does Yunzhi charge for a custom laminate?
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Don't know Marwin. They may only have standard laminate models. These are really inexpensive and I'm not sure how I feel about those. Not even sure they're made by the same crafts people or on the same factory floor. No idea how they would compare to the nicer laminate guitars you can get for a reasonable price right now.
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Off Topic:
Just wondering if there are in the world people who make the opposite transition from jazz to rock, after playing jazz for 20 years or so.....
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I want to but I'm having a little trouble fitting into my old jeans.. Originally Posted by Jazz_175
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Originally Posted by Spook410
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