Going all acoustic!

[I_88]

Greetings folks!

I had to sell my tele couple months ago, on which I had been practicing jazz (for not a long time though like 4 or 5 months) so I'm still in the early stages.

Got some money together now so I can afford a decent guitar. This time I wanna pick an acoustic one. I find the idea of playing acoustically more appealing personally, besides I'm not gigging any time soon..

Okay so to players who play/practice acoustically which would one you prefer more a steel string flattop acoustic or a nylon string classical guitar for that matter?

I know there's other options out there (an acoustic archtop which is out of reach for now, a nylon crossover..) but my heart goes with these two instruments, the classical and the flattop. I know I have to make the decision myself eventually and see which one gives me the jazz sound I like most but I'm just trying to get an idea and see which one gets more love here for playing jazz.

So between these two the classical and the flattop, which one would you choose? And please tell me the reason(s) why?

Another question please, is it a good idea in your opinion to stick to playing an acoustic guitar for years to do all sorts of jazz learning (chords, progressions, scales, improvisation, chord melody...)?

Thanks a lot for the help

Regards

[drbhrb]

You can learn/play jazz on anything but theres definitely something to be said for archtops. What's you budget? You can get a decent archtop for under $500 new, or around $300 used.

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As far as nylon vs flattop acoustic, Id go with nylon.

[I_88]

Thank you! My budget is around $300. Obviously not enough for a proper acoustic archtop. Though its a classical or a flattop for me now, if I decided to go that route I'll definitely consider those you mentioned. I really appreciate it.

[TH]

For around 300 check Ebay for a used Ibanez steel or lots of brands, like Yamaha for nylon. It's hard to tell when buying online whether the action will be unplayable, so some brands have better reputations for setting up before they ship out.
I will say that nylon generally has a fatter neck, higher action. Be aware of that, the feel is different.

Ibanez has a big line, and if you found a nice used one, you could easily get into solid wood tops and nicely set up. Try a bunch out, see what body size works comfortably for you. I just peeked on ebay. Lots that fit your criteria.
Eastman also has really nice solid wood instruments. I saw one with cosmetic finish cracks for under 300. That looks good to me.
Good luck
David

[Archie]

High

I would go with the nylon. Why?

1. It has a more focused sound than steel flat tops which lends itself better to the style.

2. In some ways easier to play. A cheap flat top could be a pig down the lower end and cause you a lot of hand pain. On the opposite side a classical needs some good technique but might be worth the effort.

Many people will claim you can play a flat top for jazz no probs, I disagree and we recently had a thread discussing the whole subject. I can't remember what its called right now but someone else will.

Anyway Good Luck :-)

[Chazmo]

We can agree to disagree about nylon vs. steel-string--I play a small-bodied Martin steel-string flattop often and it sounds great for jazz--but why dismiss an acoustic archtop as necessarily too expensive? How about a Godin 5th Avenue acoustic? Used ones go for about $300.

[mr quick]

Why not get say, a cheap Ibanez archtop? Brilliant guitars

as for your two alternatives:
A flat-top acoustic guitar just sounds sh*tty for jazz.. That's my opinion, but I just find that I doesn't sound quite right. I'd rather go with a nylon-string if you insist upon going acoustic... Get an Earl Klugh thing going :P I played nylon exclusively my first 3 years, I sometimes use an electric solid-body nylon string for recording, and my (renowned) guitar teacher uses a Yamaha acoustic nylon string in all our classes. It just sounds so much smoother and appropriate for jazz.

my 2 cents

[I_88]

Thanks a lot to all who posted so far.
As for why dismissing an acoustic archtop. I just felt I wouldn't find a cheap one that doesn't need an amp to give me a satisfying sound since I'm liking the idea of playing acoustically. Apparently its still possible within my budget, so I'll definitely consider it.
I still have a thing though for classicals and flattops as well..

[coolvinny]

I would say acoustic flattop rather than classical. It's just closer to what most jazzers tend to use, which will make a later transition easier.

[Jim Soloway]

I would say acoustic flattop rather than classical. It's just closer to what most jazzers tend to use, which will make a later transition easier.

I was actually just about to post the exact opposite. I guess it just shows that there are lots of different opinions and probably for lots of reasons.

I've been a fan of Gene Bertoncini's for many decades and he's played a lot of wonderful jazz on a nylon string guitar. I'm also a long time fan of Brazilian music and nylon string guitars have been the heart of that sound since the early 60's. It's a very warm and, I think expressive sound that a lot of great jazz pliers have used to great effect for a long time. If it's just a short term substitute then I'd probably agree with Vinny but if it's a long term solution, then I think I'd go with a nylon.

[I_88]

Thanks alot.
mmm I think I'm almost convinced and I'd probably go with a classical guitar since I'll be using it to play jazz for long time hopefully.

Again I feel I need to ask, would be a good idea to do all my jazz practice/playing on an acoustic guitar exclusively for years? Would it work well?

Thanks again!

[Flat]

I also vote for a nylon-string guitar at that price range. Something like a second-hand Yamaha nylon-string will take you a long way.

[ah.clem]

If my grandkid was asking this question and he had no preconceived notions about classical, flat top, solid body or arch tops, I'd set him up with a Squire "Vintage Vibe" Tele (well set up with 12 flats) or a used Ibanez arch top and a small amp to get started, then slowly see if he started upgrading his gear (or "borrowing" my arch tops).

If you are going to play an acoustic classical, you have no choice but to practice acoustically; if you go for a hybrid flat top, then decide how you are going to play most and practice that way. Practice how you are going to be playing most of the time. Just my opinion.

[Spook410]

If the goal is to advance your guitar playing, the nylon string.

[Jim Soloway]

Thanks alot.
mmm I think I'm almost convinced and I'd probably go with a classical guitar since I'll be using it to play jazz for long time hopefully.

Again I feel I need to ask, would be a good idea to do all my jazz practice/playing on an acoustic guitar exclusively for years? Would it work well?

Thanks again!

Sure if you put in the work and maintain the focus.

[danwaineo]

I would say acoustic flattop rather than classical. It's just closer to what most jazzers tend to use, which will make a later transition easier.

I agree with this. The nylon seems like a different animal entirely. I play most often on a flattop Ovation.

[Cunamara]

I have thought for a long time that jazz guitarists- especially me- are weird about tone. Archtop guitars are designed to be bright and cutting, yet we try to make them sound dark and warm a la Jim Hall. No wonder that it's a struggle to get a "good" tone- and that the most popular electric jazz guitar tone is based on a guitar with pretty much acoustically dead properties, the ES-175. From Herb Ellis (one of the first to adopt that instrument) through Jim Hall, Pat Metheny and Jonathan Kreisberg.

I think we are trying to approximate the naturally warm tone of the nylon string guitar, but using a guitar designed to NOT sound like that. I added nylon string to my arsenal of instruments 5-6 years ago and am more convinced of it every time I play one of them. I love the sound and the feel of nylon string. Of course I contradict this my playing an archtop 90% of the time, since that is what I use with my quintet and only occasionally play nylon string there. I'm working up a duo with a bassist and will probably focus mainly on nylon string in that setting.

Of course, I just got back from hearing Romero Lubambo and Sharon Isbin set at The Dakota in Minneapolis this evening, so the sound of nylon string is very strong in my head right now.

So, I_88, as you can guess I would recommend the nylon string for jazz. Unless you are going to play primarily with a pick, in which case I would recommend the steel string. I love playing fingerstyle and have largely stopped using a pick on my archtops too.

[docbop]

If you're planing to go back to electric I say use a steel string acoustic.
If you don't know what you want at this point or you like nylon string Jazz and Brazilian music then that's a good way to go.

[cosmic gumbo]

I love me a nylon string guitar. They are always fun to play with and have their own musical vibe. I don't know why, but the technique involved in playing one does not translate well for me onto the electric guitar, which is only what I play gigging in different groups. The right and left hand technique required to sound good on nylon seems just a waste of time for advancing on steel string, but maybe it's just me....

[matt.guitarteacher]

If you're planing to go back to electric I say use a steel string acoustic.

The right and left hand technique required to sound good on nylon seems just a waste of time for advancing on steel string, but maybe it's just me....

+1

I'd play some instruments and see what strikes you. Both instruments evoke different things as a player. If it's big, lush, dissonant, jazz chords, my cheapo nylon tends to sound muddy and hats to hear all of those notes. I'm sure in the $300 used range they're a lot better with that.

I'd definitely look at used btw. $300 doesn't go as far with acoustics as it does with electrics IMO. Also, 99% of all flat tops manufactured for under $300 are going to be dreadnought body style. Great bluegrass guitars, but harder to get a jazz tone out of. If you look at used, you may see other body styles...

[matt.guitarteacher]

Btw I play mainly acoustic and really have the itch for a Tele ... :-)

[Longways to Go]

I had more or less sworn off flat tops in favor of archtops & electrics until I picked up a Gibson J45 a couple of months ago. Not cheap, but it's all I really want to play these days. But unfortunately I don't think $300 gets you many good choices for jazz in flat tops.

I tried to get enthusiastic about nylon string, but just didn't jive with the sound. Seems like there's lots of cool nylon acoustic/electric offerings for not much $$. I love the looks, but I guess I'm not meant to be a nylon player.

+1 on Ibanez archtop -- really good guitars for the money.

[rpguitar]

All this talk of sound and tone, etc. but no direct mention of the fact that nylon strings require a totally different technique then steel strings. Well, "require" is a strong word, but if you stick to tradition and what the two formats are arguably best for, then it's true.

When I play nylon strings I essentially drop my archtops and the plectrum altogether for the duration. And pretty much vice versa; if I'm focusing on electric or acoustic archtops, I leave the classical on the wall collecting dust. I really can't exist in both worlds and find it possible to keep up my focus on both simultaneously. For me, classical/bossa is utterly consuming and in order to do it to my satisfaction, I grow nails and play only nylon. I can noodle on an electric guitar with a pick when I'm in that mode, but the reverse is not as true; I don't do as well noodling on classical when I'm in my archtop mode.

All too complicated, perhaps... but that's me. For others perhaps it's not as black and white. But the question of which technique is valid here, and was not really brought up explicitly, so I thought I'd chime in.

[I_88]

Thanks alot folks. Really appreciate your help.

I'm probably going for nylon string classical. Fits my budget and good for long term jazz playing.

But just so I dont dismiss flattops so quickly especially after you said it's a totally different animal from steel guitars in terms of feel and technique. I agree that i might only get a dread style guitar within my budget which is no good for jazz, and wouldn't be comfy to play anyaway.

I searched online and I found a small body flattop I could afford. Its a Recording King ROS-06. Sounds good on youtube! Haven't tried it. But anyone here owned or played one. Did it sound good for jazz to your ears?

[I_88]

@rpguitar, thanks. You and I posted at the same time

I'm giving it a second thought for sure before I go for a classical guitar now that I've read your post..

P.s. so I can see all the options I have, do Ibanez archtops sound good acoustically?

Again thank you so much for all the help everyone!