Thomastik Infeld Jazz Bebop strings

[Flyin' Brian]

Interesting. I very rarely change my own strings . . so some of what you have posted here is news to me. I'm not certain I understand how you could possibly cut the strings on an arch top with traditional tuner posts.?.? Does Glaser have a video of this process?

Here's a pic of Fender split posts



Glaser doesn't but here's another guy. It's a flat top but still the same idea.

[Klatu]

Klatu: I got the info on the perceived/actual difference in string tension being attributable to the hex (D'Add) vs round (TI) directly from a customer service rep at Stings and Beyond, where I buy all of my string . . and the cust svc rep got it directly from TI. So, I'm not sure if it's factual or just marketing hype. But, I'm more inclined to go with factual. Also, the .012 D'Add Chrome flat wounds are .012 to .052. The TI Jazz swings are .013 to .053. Yet, to me the TIs seem to have less tension and are easier to fret. So, I think your info on the string gauges is inacurate.

D'Addario Chrome 12

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.012	23.3
2nd B	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.016	23.3
3rd G	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.024	30.0
4th D	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.032	27.9
5th A	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.042	28.0
6th E	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.052	22.7

Thomastik-Infeld Swing 13

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel	.013	26.0
2nd B	Plain Steel	.017	25.1
3rd G	Nickel Flat Wound	.021	27.3
4th D	Nickel Flat Wound	.028	27.3
5th A	Nickel Flat Wound	.039	24.8
6th E	Nickel Flat Wound	.053	26.0

Make of this what you will.

[Danny W.]

I've always used the Bensons. Can anyone compare to the TI swings?

Never liked chromes...

I prefer the Benson .012" rounds because the Swing .012" rounds have an unwound third.

Danny W.

[2bornot2bop]

2B is the G a wound string on bebops or plain?

it's wound. Only the B and E strings are plain...pretty gold shade they R too!

[DC Ron]

I put .012/.013 TI's on my high end guitars and like them all, but usually stick to Bensons or Swings. I tried Chromes on some of the mid range stuff, but the 3rd string feels relatively rough to me, so I kind of regret it. Durable strings though...

[Patrick2]

D'Addario Chrome 12

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.012	23.3
2nd B	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.016	23.3
3rd G	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.024	30.0
4th D	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.032	27.9
5th A	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.042	28.0
6th E	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.052	22.7

Thomastik-Infeld Swing 13

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel	.013	26.0
2nd B	Plain Steel	.017	25.1
3rd G	Nickel Flat Wound	.021	27.3
4th D	Nickel Flat Wound	.028	27.3
5th A	Nickel Flat Wound	.039	24.8
6th E	Nickel Flat Wound	.053	26.0

Make of this what you will.

Yeah . . I know what the specs say about tension. More importantly, I know what my fingers feel. When I was playing more regularly, I used to go with a custom set of D'Add Chromes. .013, .017, .022W. .030, .040, .050. The top end of the chords really sang out. I got a bit concerned about the uneven tension pull as opposed to a balanced set.

[christianm77]

Haven't readany of the other comments, so just my immediate reaction to op. I love them, but they aren't right for every guitar. I have .14s on one of mine, a more acoustic archtop guitar, excellent strings for that.

[vinnyv1k]

I love TI 13 flats too. I always change out the high E & B strings with plain steel though usually from Elixir. The stainless Chromes always felt rough against my frets. Nickel is way more fret friendly then stainless. I always wait for Strings and Beyond to have a 15% off sale then stock up for a year.

[Longways to Go]

+1 on bebop 13's. I mostly prefer rounds over flats these days.

Flats dull out the lower end -- which I don't really need -- while the plain treble strings stay mainly the same. I don't quite get that. I understand trying to get around string squeak, but if I want treble roll off, to me it's an issue for the upper register, not the low notes. . .

BTW, my Eastman AR371 loves the TI bebops!

[ruger9]

+1 on bebop 13's. I mostly prefer rounds over flats these days.

Flats dull out the lower end -- which I don't really need -- while the plain treble strings stay mainly the same. I don't quite get that. I understand trying to get around string squeak, but if I want treble roll off, to me it's an issue for the upper register, not the low notes. . .

!

Agreed. If anything, I WANT more highs on the wound strings, to make them more "piano-like".

[mangotango]

Whereas I have happily used TI Bebops in the past, I am now using the Newtone Archtops. Every bit as good as the Bebops, a slightly smoother feel, and 2/3rds of the price.

Flatwounds where I use them are still TI Swings, BTW.

[2bornot2bop]

Whereas I have happily used TI Bebops in the past, I am now using the Newtone Archtops. Every bit as good as the Bebops, a slightly smoother feel, and 2/3rds of the price.

Flatwounds where I use them are still TI Swings, BTW.

I'd never heard of Newtone Archtop's. They sound interesting:

Newtone Strings | www.12fret.com

"Newtone uses a conventional round-wound string as a ” core”, then this finished string is wound a second time to “bulk up” to the full final string diameter. For example: picture a finished D string which has a quite fine windings. Then wind it a second time with the same fine windings to “bulk up” to an low E string diameter. This gives you an E string with the feel of the fine windings on a D string. Furthermore, it is an low E string with the solid steel core of a D string so clearly needs less tension to reach pitch.

The result is less string squeak, a softer more flexible feel similar to flatwound — but unlike flatwounds, Newtone Archtop strings retain the treble clarity one expects from round wound strings."

[christianm77]

Whereas I have happily used TI Bebops in the past, I am now using the Newtone Archtops. Every bit as good as the Bebops, a slightly smoother feel, and 2/3rds of the price.

Flatwounds where I use them are still TI Swings, BTW.

I have these on my other archtop and I am digging them too.

[sgcim]

I've been using the TI Bebops for many years now and can remember when i could find them in stores for only $12.
Now I can't find them in stores anymore and have to pay almost $30 online when you include shipping.
That's a lot of money when you consider I'm using them on a laminate electric arch top, and I can't use the G string (it's not wound on the .011s) and I can't intonate the B string, so I'm paying $30 for four strings.
I have to use .011s because I've got a very light touch, and am sensitive to the slightest increase in tension.
I wind up keeping the 6th, 5th and 4th strings on my guitar for about ten months, and then the 4th string starts to go, and I have to get a new set.

For some reason (maybe the weather), I have to use an .020 G string for good intonation. I don't know how to use the truss rod, and I'm afraid of screwing up the neck, so maybe i should let someone do a setup.

Anyway, I'm going to check out the Newtone Archtops, and see how they compare to the TI Bebops.

[Frank67]

The bebops are my favorite strings. They produce a mellow tone that is still acoustically pleasing and rich, have little finger noise, not too much tension and last a long time. I've experimented with strings a lot - for jazz on archtops the bebops .13 is what it came down to.

[Para]

I've ordered a few sets of bebop 13's, I'll give them a try and see if I like them. I was in two minds between them and the Newtones.

[Klatu]

Yeah . . I know what the specs say about tension. More importantly, I know what my fingers feel. When I was playing more regularly, I used to go with a custom set of D'Add Chromes. .013, .017, .022W. .030, .040, .050. The top end of the chords really sang out. I got a bit concerned about the uneven tension pull as opposed to a balanced set.

My feeling is that you're either misreading my post or misinterpreting the data I posted because my sense is that we both acknowledge that TI strings feel softer than their D'Addario counterpart; however, the data suggests that the feeling of lower tension comes from the actual lower tension of the strings. Whether or not the core makes a difference is open to debate, but there is no doubt that most of the wound strings of the TI sets are thinner and therefore produce less tension than the D'Addarios.

[Patrick2]

My feeling is that you're either misreading my post or misinterpreting the data I posted because my sense is that we both acknowledge that TI strings feel softer than their D'Addario counterpart; however, the data suggests that the feeling of lower tension comes from the actual lower tension of the strings. Whether or not the core makes a difference is open to debate, but there is no doubt that most of the wound strings of the TI sets are thinner and therefore produce less tension than the D'Addarios.

OK. ?? I'm just saying that although the TIs are of a larger gauge . . they still feel like they are of a lesser gauge. So, I guess you're correct in saying that we're in agreement.

[Klatu]

The data suggests that the TI are not in fact a larger gauge. Thicker gauge strings on the TI 13 gauge are the 1st, 2nd, and 6th while all others are thicker on the 12 gauge D'Addario set. As I consider all unwound strings to be interchangeable, my conclusion is that the TI 13 set in not a higher gauge set than the D'Addario 12.

D'Addario Chrome 12

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.012	23.3
2nd B	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.016	23.3
3rd G	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.024	30.0
4th D	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.032	27.9
5th A	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.042	28.0
6th E	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.052	22.7

Thomastik-Infeld Swing 13

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel	.013	26.0
2nd B	Plain Steel	.017	25.1
3rd G	Nickel Flat Wound	.021	27.3
4th D	Nickel Flat Wound	.028	27.3
5th A	Nickel Flat Wound	.039	24.8
6th E	Nickel Flat Wound	.053	26.0

[Patrick2]

The data suggests that the TI are not in fact a larger gauge. Thicker gauge strings on the TI 13 gauge are the 1st, 2nd, and 6th while all others are thicker on the 12 gauge D'Addario set. As I consider all unwound strings to be interchangeable, my conclusion is that the TI 13 set in not a higher gauge set than the D'Addario 12.

D'Addario Chrome 12

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.012	23.3
2nd B	Plain Steel Locked Twist Ball End	.016	23.3
3rd G	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.024	30.0
4th D	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.032	27.9
5th A	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.042	28.0
6th E	Chromes Stainless Steel Flat Wound	.052	22.7

Thomastik-Infeld Swing 13

NOTE	DESCRIPTION	DIAMETER INCHES	TENSION LBS
1st E	Plain Steel	.013	26.0
2nd B	Plain Steel	.017	25.1
3rd G	Nickel Flat Wound	.021	27.3
4th D	Nickel Flat Wound	.028	27.3
5th A	Nickel Flat Wound	.039	24.8
6th E	Nickel Flat Wound	.053	26.0

Well, ok . . so, three of the D'Ads are thicker than three of the TIs . . and three of the TIs are thicker than three of the D'Ads. That means that I'm half right and you're half wrong. It also means that you're half right and I'm half wrong. So then . . I think it's safe to say .. that we're both equally half assed.?.? ;-)

[Klatu]

That's cool with me.

[marvinvv]

Thomstik TI 13-53 feel less tension/softer for two reasons

A. they have round cores
B. 13-53 even though they have a 13 17 they have lighter 3, 4 & 5 string than a 12 guage set,

IMO i do not regard Ti Swing 13 set as a true 13 set, now i know there will be someone out there who will argue the case, but if you go back over the years you will see most brands have a approx standard sort gauge

E B G D A E
13 17 26w 34/35 44/45 53/56


I am not knocking Thomastic Ti at all wonderfull strings. even Ti 13 & 17 strings are marginally thin ( a tiny bit ) thinner than Daddario 13 & 17.

This is because
Ti 13 = 0.32mm , 17 = 0.42mm
Da chromes 13 = 0.33mm , 17 = 0.43mm

Conclusion Ti 13s do not actually have That much less tension because they are approx sort of 12s of other brands.

To be absolutely precise you need to have exactly the same gauges in both Ti & Chromes to be accurate. Not possible.
There is a difference in German & USA dimensions. I leave you with that. I personally dont think of Ti as being true 13 guage set. I know there are very very many who will disagree, and are happy with them. Again Thomastic Ti make great strings. I am using Fender 50M 13-54 (13 17 26 34 44 54 ) great strings, my second set so far having used everything it appears they could be made by Daddario because of the colored ball ends but 54 not 56 on bottom E.

[Patrick2]

Thomstik TI 13-53 feel less tension/softer for two reasons

A. they have round cores
B. 13-53 even though they have a 13 17 they have lighter 3, 4 & 5 string than a 12 guage set,

IMO i do not regard Ti Swing 13 set as a true 13 set, now i know there will be someone out there who will argue the case, but if you go back over the years you will see most brands have a approx standard sort gauge

E B G D A E
13 17 26w 34/35 44/45 53/56


I am not knocking Thomastic Ti at all wonderfull strings. even Ti 13 & 17 strings are marginally thin ( a tiny bit ) thinner than Daddario 13 & 17.

This is because
Ti 13 = 0.32mm , 17 = 0.42mm
Da chromes 13 = 0.33mm , 17 = 0.43mm

Conclusion Ti 13s do not actually have That much less tension because they are approx sort of 12s of other brands.

To be absolutely precise you need to have exactly the same gauges in both Ti & Chromes to be accurate. Not possible.
There is a difference in German & USA dimensions. I leave you with that. I personally dont think of Ti as being true 13 guage set. I know there are very very many who will disagree, and are happy with them. Again Thomastic Ti make great strings. I am using Fender 50M 13-54 (13 17 26 34 44 54 ) great strings, my second set so far having used everything it appears they could be made by Daddario because of the colored ball ends but 54 not 56 on bottom E.

Well, based upon the perception of touch and feel [for me] my TI .013s feel a good bit less tense than my .012s D'Ad Chromes. However, I find myself starting to gravitate back to the D'Ads. They just seem to ring out a bit more on some of my guitars

[SierraTango]

I found the TI Jazz Swing 13's to work best on my '92 Artist Award when I had it. You may notice the 13's feel more like other manufactures 12's or do to me.
Liked them very much, however my Benedetto gets on much better with LaBella 13 flats.

This was my non-technical reply to OP. The TI 13's feel like "American" 12's to me. Perhaps a metric thing?
The D'A Chrome 12's just flat out work on my Pisano 880 best. And I auditioned TI's, Fender, La Bella, etc on it. The word I heard was D'A was the "house" string at Eastman. Maybe something to that.

Just like after several try outs on my Cremona the La Bella 13's work very well. In the "Building an Archtop Guitar" book, there is one whole page where Bob is almost endorsing La Bella. Since the book was written about 1994 and my Cremona is was completed in 1990, I would have to assume it was originally set up with La Bella.

I like the strings, they work extremely well on the B, sound great and half the price of the TI's. Plus a extra 1st and 2nd string included. Win/win.

[Klatu]

Thanks for that response. I haven't yet tried the La Bella strings, but everything I've read about them lead me to believe that they are held in very high regard.