Value of Gibson Citation with repaired crack

[JazzNote]

Hi,

I've recently been invited to try a 98 Gibson Citation. The guitar plays well but has a professionally repaired crack reaching from the lower f hole to the binding at the cutaway.

Now i wonder if a repaired crack would decrease the value of the instrument. I see some late nineties Citations on the market for about $ 12'000 - obviously they have no cracks.

regards,
JN

[wintermoon]

the same as it was over in the Gibson forums where you asked earlier.
I think Jab had said around 50% off as it's generally a showpiece type of guitar.
I'd put it @ about 30-35% off a mint one

[2bornot2bop]

I've had personal experience selling a Gibson Super 400 with a repaired top crack in the same location...treble f-hole to the cutaway. The guitar had received a professional repair prior to my acquiring it.

That guitar sold 4 days after it was listed for sale. It's buyer could not have been happier to acquire that guitar. The selling price was consistent with other Super 400 listings that did not have a top repair. And other than the professional repair, the guitar was in superb condition...a specimen, to be sure.

And no one was more surprised than me.

[Archie]

More importantly, whats the Value of a Gibson Citation, regardless?

Normally cracks mean money off and that sound like a big one. I doubt as easy to hide as on the Sup4

I say $7500 but thats quite a guess. Would be happy to know others valuations, just as the OP is.

[JazzNote]

More importantly, whats the Value of a Gibson Citation, regardless?

Normally cracks mean money off and that sound like a big one. I doubt as easy to hide as on the Sup4

I say $7500 but thats quite a guess. Would be happy to know others valuations, just as the OP is.

it's a blonde citation, the repair is visible - the first thing i noticed when looking at the guitar closely.

Very well hidden on the above Super400 indeed.

[JazzNote]

the same as it was over in the Gibson forums where you asked earlier.
I think Jab had said around 50% off as it's generally a showpiece type of guitar.
I'd put it @ about 30-35% off a mint one

Thanks! I hope no one minds me asking the same question in different forums. I'll be happy to get a few more opinions - chances for this are better if i ask in more than one place.

[JazzNote]

I've had personal experience selling a Gibson Super 400 with a repaired top crack in the same location...treble f-hole to the cutaway. The guitar had received a professional repair prior to my acquiring it.

That guitar sold 4 days after it was listed for sale. It's buyer could not have been happier to acquire that guitar. The selling price was consistent with other Super 400 listings that did not have a top repair. And other than the professional repair, the guitar was in superb condition...a specimen, to be sure.

And no one was more surprised than me.

surprising indeed!

[Jabberwocky]

JN, when you are the prospective buyer, you want to err on the side that benefits you.

As an illustration, 2bop, if memory serves, bought a 1998 Gibson L-5CES ASB with a 1.5" crack in the lower bout. The seller asked $3300 for it and went down to $3000 in his offer to me which I thought was pretty damned low. 2bop offered him $2500 for it which the seller accepted. So, the 1.5" crack obviously mattered to 2bop. You see, when you are selling a 3" crack 'don't' [sic] matter but when you are buying, a 1.5" crack is not worth the asking. Edit: From f-hole to cutaway, that's got to be longer than 3".

Everybody loves a good deal. So, it depends on which side of the equation you are on.

I am in concurrence with wintermoon's realistic assessment of 30% to 35% off mint condition price. I just like to give myself some wiggle room.

My personal thoughts on the Citation: Great playing guitars but the fellows who buy them usually want them as showpieces so they want perfect ones, even as used guitars. A mint one would be difficult to sell used on a good day. A Citation with a long crack as you mentioned will have no takers unless the price were really low. If you are willing to pay $10000 for it, save up another $2000 and buy one without any issues. Too bad that Citation is cracked but them's the breaks, pardon the bad pun.

The buyers' market is full of sharks and cruel. Don't expect charity.

Edit: The crack in the top when well-repaired does not make it a bad guitar. In most respects there will be little to no diminishing in its functional performance. A Citation, ooh la la, is supposed to be a showpiece.

If you want one for playing and that doesn't look too shabby get a Le Grand. I paid $5500 for mine, a 2012 ASB with no issues.

[wintermoon]

JN, when you are the prospective buyer, you want to err on the side that benefits you.

As an illustration, 2bop, if memory serves, bought a 1998 Gibson L-5CES ASB with a 1.5" crack in the lower bout. The seller asked $3300 for it and went down to $3000 in his offer to me which I thought was pretty damned low. 2bop offered him $2500 for it which the seller accepted. So, the 1.5" crack obviously mattered to 2bop. You see, when you are selling a 3" crack 'don't' [sic] matter but when you are buying, a 1.5" crack is not worth the asking.

Everybody loves a good deal. So, it depends on which side of the equation you are on.

I am in concurrence with wintermoon's realistic assessment of 30% to 35% off mint condition price. I just like to give myself some wiggle room.

My personal thoughts on the Citation: Great playing guitars but the fellows who buy them usually want them as showpieces so they want perfect ones, even as used guitars. A mint one would be difficult to sell used on a good day. A Citation with a long crack as you mentioned will have no takers unless the price was really low. If you are willing to pay $10000 for it, save up another $2000 and buy one without any issues. Too bad that Citation is cracked but them's the breaks, pardon the bad pun.

The buyers' market is full of sharks and cruel. Don't expect charity.

If you want one for playing and that doesn't look too shabby get a Le Grand. I paid $5500 for mine, a 2012 ASB with no issues.

I agree w/Jab's wiggle room theory, I didn't take that into consideration
and I also agree w/his showpiece theory, I don't know a single person that owns one that actually plays it regularly, w/the excpetion of Greentone who I believe said he passed on one once, even though it was the best archtop he'd ever played. he would've played it....

btw, I think the OP already has a Legrand as well as an L-5CES

[JazzNote]

I agree w/Jab's wiggle room theory, I didn't take that into consideration
and I also agree w/his showpiece theory, I don't know a single person that owns one that actually plays it regularly, w/the excpetion of Greentone who I believe said he passed on one once, even though it was the best archtop he'd ever played. he would've played it....

btw, I think the OP already has a Legrand as well as an L-5CES

hmmmm, i initially intended to look at the Citation for mainly investment reasons. But maybe if i could get it really cheap i might actually not be afraid to take it to regular gigs.

Since english is not my original tongue i wonder what "OP" means ...
and yes i have a L5 as well as a LeGrand, they are my main guitars and i love them for different reasons.

[JazzNote]

If you want one for playing and that doesn't look too shabby get a Le Grand. I paid $5500 for mine, a 2012 ASB with no issues.

I bought my LeGrand a few years ago but as american guitars are somewhat more expensive here in Europe i had to pay about the equivalent of $8000 for it. However it was by far the best sounding of about four LeGrands which i could try within about a couple of years preceding the purchase, so it was worth the money.

[Jabberwocky]

OP: Original Post or Original Poster.

By the way, price guesstimates given in an American Stateside context. Things are different in Euroland.

[fritz jones]

i saw a 50's L5 that looked like it had been run over, with hideously repaired cracks running the entire length of the guitar.
the seller wanted something like 6-7k for it.

[2bornot2bop]

The seller asked $3300 for it and went down to $3000 in his offer to me which I thought was pretty damned low. 2bop offered him $2500 for it which the seller accepted. So, the 1.5" crack obviously mattered to 2bop.

For the record...

Actually no, the crack didn't matter to me in the least...as since it was to be my first L5CES, at the time I was on ether to buy it...what did I care about a repaired crack

My $2500 offer was based upon, half the forum, excluding myself, observed that L5CES listed for sell here on the forum for almost a week.

Having not been on the forum for days, I'd arrived late to the party, and yet no one, including myself, knew the extent of the damage to that guitar....it had been poorly photographed. And additionally, there was a 6 inch area of finish damage to that L5's treble rim.

My offer was consistent with a roll of the dice...I was prepared to pay up to $3k...but the seller didn't know that. Moral of the story...either you roll the dice...or you don't.

[Jabberwocky]

I got mine from Japan. Given the tanking JPY, one can get a brandnew 2014 Gibson L-5 Lee Ritenour for about $6400 now! Compare that to the $8200 that Stateside dealers are asking for it. And there are 3 of them for sale. Wish I had the money...

[Jabberwocky]

i saw a 50's L5 that looked like it had been run over, with hideously repaired cracks running the entire length of the guitar.
the seller wanted something like 6-7k for it.

Did it sell for $6K to $7K? Asking is one thing. Fetching the asking is another.

As an illustration, Guyboden pointed me to an ebay seller asking $7700 for a Guild-Benedetto X-700 Stuart. One actually sold last week on ebay for $3900. And a few years prior to that (2010/2011), Joe V. of archtop.com sold one for $3450. Somehow, I got tarred and feathered as "always denigrating" Guild-Benedetto because I mentioned that fact. And the 25 and 9/16" scale length, of course.

[GNAPPI]

Thanks! I hope no one minds me asking the same question in different forums. I'll be happy to get a few more opinions - chances for this are better if i ask in more than one place.

You just may get different opinions here. I think the Gibson site (IMO) may give MUCH more weight regarding condition problems, and many might be unlikely to buy it anyway, but here (again IMO) you may get opinions from more players? Players may actually prefer a guitar for the stage with issues and might consider a damaged box a bit more.

As I see it the two main problems with damaged instruments is re-sale... and the possibility of instability on the repaired section in the future, rendering whatever price you paid an issue.

[fumblefingers]

I agree w/Jab's wiggle room theory, I didn't take that into consideration
and I also agree w/his showpiece theory, I don't know a single person that owns one that actually plays it regularly, w/the excpetion of Greentone who I believe said he passed on one once, even though it was the best archtop he'd ever played. he would've played it....

btw, I think the OP already has a Legrand as well as an L-5CES

I play mine. I love my Legrand's and play them more but the Citation is such a pleasure. It sounds better too, deeper, richer. I didn't necessarily expect that it would.

[JazzNote]

I play mine. I love my Legrand's and play them more but the Citation is such a pleasure. It sounds better too, deeper, richer. I didn't necessarily expect that it would.

just for curiosity - what makes you decide whether to take the Legrand or the Citation out to a gig?

[fumblefingers]

just for curiosity - what makes you decide whether to take the Legrand or the Citation out to a gig?

I do something else for a living but if I did play out I would never take the Citation, lol. Never.

furthermore, I would skip this purchase but that's just me. I saw a mint used Citation for $12K a few years ago at a big guitar show. Natural finish. Not as special as mine but costs half as much.

good luck with your decision, I understand the attraction.

[jads57]

Check w/ a reputable Gibson Archtop Dealer that's been in business for a number of years like Gruhn Guitars, Mandolin Bros., Archtop.com,etc.

[Danny W.]

I do something else for a living but if I did play out I would never take the Citation, lol. Never.

Robbie Robertson would:

Danny W.

[JazzNote]

and he even doesn't care to bring a stand for it .......

[fumblefingers]

Chuckle. Pretty high production values there, more of a music video than a "gig"?

in my hypothetical scenario I failed to mention that I would also fail to be a famous successful musician.

so, there's that hehe

[fumblefingers]

and he even doesn't care to bring a stand for it .......

Fantastic point guvna.

not a GC speed rubber one, and certainly not a cork sniffer speed one.

question is, with the "back through neck heel construction", where is the strap button? Yikes.