Eastman El Rey 1 Tweaks

[Sam Sherry]

About a month ago I swapped some gear for an El Rey 1. It's been fun and, frankly, alluring -- it certainly has drawn me in. But I could not escape the feeling that the guitar could be even more. This weekend I ran some worthwhile tweaks that seemed worth sharing.

The ER1 has a reputation for neck-dive. The stock tuners are Grover copies from Gotoh and they're about as heavy as tuners get. But check these rather attractive Waverly copies -- $28 off EBay -- are a bunch lighter and work great:



Now the El Rey hangs great and plays great!

The stock Chinese KA pickup is fine but my pal Neil's Benedetto knocked me out. I got the B-6 from DjangoBooks -- unbelievable service; three days shipping from Washington to Maine. This pickup, on day one, is full of "full and smooth" and yeah, I can't wait to take it to the local session.

As long as we're tweaking, the stock amber bell-knobs were always tough to see. These ebony barrels with maple lines, also from EBay, are exactly the solution.



For what it's worth, pulling the harness through the El Rey is no more challenging than on any other thin-body but you will need to install a new tailpiece ground when you do. No big.

At this point, the El Rey is working well, sounding well . . . looking well . . . now back to the music!

[jazzrat]

always loved those. Gorgeous and nice upgrades!

[M-ster]

Love to hear this, if you get a chance.

[Klatu]

Has neck dive been completely eliminated? If all it takes is a change of tuners, I might doing the same to mine.

I contacted Mr. D'Ambrosio about the neck dive issue with regards to my El Rey and 186. He wrote back that his original designs included using lighter wood that what was chosen by Eastman, producing the neck heavy result. As for a solution, he mentioned several options. First was changing out the tuners as you have done. Second, he recommended moving the strap pin a bit. Lastly, he mentioned Jeff Hale's solution of adding weight to the end block. He thought that adding 1lb of weight would most likely be enough to remedy the problem.

I hope that I can set up this guitar to be my most comfortable instrument because it's one of the best sounding electrics in my collection. For what it's worth, IMO I get just as good an electric sound out of it than I do from my Epiphone Broadway Elitist.

Of course, I think my opinion is valuable, but if you want the true expert's review, check out Jeff Zucker's take on the instrument on his web page. He has owned just about every high end semi-hollow guitar I can think of and he rates the El Rey quite highly.

Text

[Sam Sherry]

The neck-dive is much improved with the lighter tuners. Using a cotton or suede strap the neck stays put. Bear in mind that even from the factory the ER1 neck-dive is non-existent when you are playing because your right forearm holds the guitar in place.

The ER1 feels different and right, and at this point those are the two magic words for me. It's fun. Gear sometimes flips in and out of my house pretty regularly but I'm planning to hang on and explore this guitar.

[Tcaron20]

Hi Sam,

i know now this is an old thread but I just picked up a new Er1 and ordered the Waverly tuners.
I want to put in a new pickup and wondered if you had any advice on how to do it. Would prefer leaving guts alone and splicing in a new pickup, probably with connectors for future swaps.
thoughts?

thanks,

tom

[Sam Sherry]

Tom --

Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking. My ER-1 has been gone for a while. I enjoyed owning it, tweaking it and playing it -- had it for about a year.

A few points:
. I wound up with a Duncan / Bendetto B6 pickup, which felt like really good fit for that particular guitar
. Get yourself a cotton or leather strap which should let the guitar stay put while you're playing it
. Consider using a generic plastic cell phone screen protector or similar sheet as a pickguard

If you activated PM I will send detailed pickup installation notes by PM. They're long and stupidly over-detailed for posting.

Good luck -- play it long and well!

[unknownguitarplayer]

A few points:
. I wound up with a Duncan / Bendetto B6 pickup, which felt like really good fit for that particular guitar
. Get yourself a cotton or leather strap which should let the guitar stay put while you're playing it
. Consider using a generic plastic cell phone screen protector or similar sheet as a pickguard

If you activated PM I will send detailed pickup installation notes by PM. They're long and stupidly over-detailed for posting.

Could I get a copy of those installation notes too? I've been playing an ER-1 for a few years, and never really warmed up to the pickup sound (ER-1 in action posted below).

BTW, you're right, my forearm holds the guitar in place, but lately, that's been causing some tennis elbow problems. I'm hoping that I can relax the forearm if I can reduce the neck weight, so I'll give the tuners a shot.

Thanks!

[rio]

I hate dealing with pots in archtops so I have spliced in pickups in the past. If you want to get in there then that is definitely a more elegant solution but I don't know if any way to do it that isn't a total pain to deal with. I'd love to learn of one though!

Edit: forgot to add that I am jealous. I have wanted an el Rey for a long time now but haven't gotten to play one so I haven't pulled the trigger. They seem awesome though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Sam Sherry]

Could I get a copy of those installation notes too? I've been playing an ER-1 for a few years, and never really warmed up to the pickup sound (ER-1 in action posted below).

BTW, you're right, my forearm holds the guitar in place, but lately, that's been causing some tennis elbow problems. I'm hoping that I can relax the forearm if I can reduce the neck weight, so I'll give the tuners a shot.

The tuner change is easy and it does help.

Awright awright awready. Since people have this apparent hankering to hear about it and since I owe JGF so much, even though I have left the ER1 behind some time ago, here are meticulously over-detailed thoughts about re-wiring the ER1. Don't say I didn't warn you.

= = = = =

. Loosen all nuts AND THE TAILPIECE to remove the factory harness including the ground wire.
. Put a regular 8.5" x 11" paper over the face of the guitar. Poke your pots upside down through the paper into the holes. That way the paper protects the face from any solder blobs or finger slips.
. Adjust the lead length and solder up the new pickup.
.. You can either leave it factory-long and zip-tie it or cut it to length.
.. Don't solder your ground lead yet.
. Complete any other soldering on your harness.

I replaced the pots, cap and jack because I am That Guy. My advice is not to bother. Shoot some tuner cleaner into the pots if you want to; you won't be doing it later!

You'll need four long wires to re-install the harness.
. One goes through each pot-hole, long enough to reach from the pot-hole to the pickup hole with several inches showing on each end.
.. Before you thread it through the pot-hole put the nut and washer on the wire so they will be ready to use.
.. Thread it through and wrap the end around the pot tight enough that you can tug. If you use split-shaft pots consider threading it through the slot.

. Another one is for the jack, wound tight enough to tug but loose enough to push off after installation.
.. Don't forget to leave the washer and nut on the outside of the guitar

. The fourth is a fresh ground lead, threaded through the tailpiece and now soldered to the jack.

I use spools of wire so I can rewind them as I'm tugging. By the time you stretch wires to the pickup hole they're a lot longer than they need to wind up and you're wasting a bunch of wire. I like wire because it's stiff enough to go where I tell it to.

Gently tug the wires to guide the parts into place. You'll need to work all four but your main 'placers' will be the ground and jack with the pots along for the ride. Your nuts and washers will be in place on the wires, ready to slide on.

This process is nowhere near as tricky as I have made it sound. Just plan ahead; it's a straight install once you get past the "no holes" aspect.


Good luck and enjoy!

BEST, SAM

[rio]

The tuner change is easy and it does help.

Awright awright awready. Since people have this apparent hankering to hear about it and since I owe JGF so much, even though I have left the ER1 behind some time ago, here are meticulously over-detailed thoughts about re-wiring the ER1. Don't say I didn't warn you.

= = = = =

. Loosen all nuts AND THE TAILPIECE to remove the factory harness including the ground wire.
. Put a regular 8.5" x 11" paper over the face of the guitar. Poke your pots upside down through the paper into the holes. That way the paper protects the face from any solder blobs or finger slips.
. Adjust the lead length and solder up the new pickup.
.. You can either leave it factory-long and zip-tie it or cut it to length.
.. Don't solder your ground lead yet.
. Complete any other soldering on your harness.

I replaced the pots, cap and jack because I am That Guy. My advice is not to bother. Shoot some tuner cleaner into the pots if you want to; you won't be doing it later!

You'll need four long wires to re-install the harness.
. One goes through each pot-hole, long enough to reach from the pot-hole to the pickup hole with several inches showing on each end.
.. Before you thread it through the pot-hole put the nut and washer on the wire so they will be ready to use.
.. Thread it through and wrap the end around the pot tight enough that you can tug. If you use split-shaft pots consider threading it through the slot.

. Another one is for the jack, wound tight enough to tug but loose enough to push off after installation.
.. Don't forget to leave the washer and nut on the outside of the guitar

. The fourth is a fresh ground lead, threaded through the tailpiece and now soldered to the jack.

I use spools of wire so I can rewind them as I'm tugging. By the time you stretch wires to the pickup hole they're a lot longer than they need to wind up and you're wasting a bunch of wire. I like wire because it's stiff enough to go where I tell it to.

Gently tug the wires to guide the parts into place. You'll need to work all four but your main 'placers' will be the ground and jack with the pots along for the ride. Your nuts and washers will be in place on the wires, ready to slide on.

This process is nowhere near as tricky as I have made it sound. Just plan ahead; it's a straight install once you get past the "no holes" aspect.


Good luck and enjoy!

BEST, SAM

Sam, thanks for those details. I have a cheap art core that I gutted and never put back together so I will have to try it with your instructions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Klatu]

I am the proud owner of an Eastman El Rey 2 that exhibits some neck diving tendencies. Coincidentally, last week I dropped the guitar off with my luthier with the instructions to find a way to add weight to the bottom of the guitar near the end pin so that guitar would balance properly. I mentioned that Jeff Hale used to add fishing weights to the inside of the guitar to help with balance as an option when purchasing directly from him.

My guy said that he would do some research and get back to me. I'm going to visit him tomorrow to pick up some other work he's doing for me, so stay tuned!

[unknownguitarplayer]

Thanks, Sam.

[unknownguitarplayer]

A The stock tuners are Grover copies from Gotoh and they're about as heavy as tuners get. But check these rather attractive Waverly copies -- $28 off EBay -- are a bunch lighter and work great:

Do you remember if those were "acoustic" tuners? That's what shows up on eBay in the price range you mention.

Gold Acoustic Guitar Tuner Set - Waverly Style - Butterbean Knobs | eBay

[rob taft]

I replaced the pickup on my El Rey4 and did it pretty much the same way as Sam but I just used guitar strings for pot locators. With my ground wire I found I had to drill the hole out a bit larger i.e. the hole Eastman put in was pretty small and they used thin ground wire. I spent too much time trying to get it fished back in the hole so I enlarged it a hair. When I got the old harness out I decided to not replace the pots as the stock pots were decent CTS brand pots.

Obviously with the ElRey4 and the oval holes, removing and replacing the pots/harness is much easier. I talked to Otto D'Ambrosio a few weeks ago and he said the ElRey4 was created to correct the neck dive.Otto and Eastman are making me a custom El Rey4 which I hope to have in a couple of months.

The only negative to my current El Rey4 was the fretwork. The frets were uneven and they file too much off the ends of the frets during the tapering operation. I fixed the uneven frets but I can't fix the shorten frets unless I want to refret the neck. The stock pickup was ok but pretty bland so I ended up with a Benedetto in the neck position. My custom El Rey will have an Armstrong floater.

[Tcaron20]

I love non traditional, off beat guitars and my new Eastman ER-1 is right in line with that.

While the Chinese Kent Armstrong HPAG-1 sounds ok, I can't help believe that standard Lollar Imperial, Dimazio 36th Anniversary or Benedetto A-6 might give more string definition, cleaner and less muddy bottom end and pleasant glassy mids. The Armstrong is also a bit weak in volume so looking for a bit more from new pup.

Now that I know how to get into the ER-1 to change the pup out, thanks Sam Sherry!, I am ready to give it a try.
Money is not a roadblock and I want to do this only once. I favor the Lollar only because of reviews, happy users and reputation but do not want to buy it if the others mention would do the job.

Have read a lot on the Dimazio 36th but have also read that it can be a bit thin. I do want fat sound but not muddy.

I really like PRS McCarty pups and have put them in a lot of my guitars. Just not sure if they would work well in the Eastman and again, I would rather put a new Lollar in it if this the holy grail.

Any comments and or user experiences would be appreciated.


tom

[rob taft]

I changed out the stock HPAG-1 for a Benedetto A6. It definitely improves on the areas you mention e.g. string definition etc., I was going to try a another pickup I had available a Bare Knuckles Stormy Monday as I found the A6 a bit sterile if you will, but I ended up with a different amp that has a great EQ section and I am pleased with the Benedetto for what I use this guitar for which is clean fingerstyle solo arrangements.

The custom ElRey will have a Kent handwound floater that will be thinner than the usual KA handwound floater.

[Tcaron20]

Thanks Rob,

The amp does make a big difference. I do mostly solo or duo stuff so the tone makes a big difference for me.

Thanks,

Tom

[Tcaron20]

Any thoughts on the difference between these two pups for the ER-1?

Tom

[rob taft]

I have not tried the B6, but I'm not a fan of pickups without screw poles unless the pickup was designed for that particular guitar. From SD's website, they look to be identical except for the adjustable poles. I have the S6 floater on my GBAA and I'm very pleased with that pickup on that guitar and for the type of sound I want to hear with that guitar which is more acoustic and less the typical Gibson archtop tone. The S6 is a different pickup than the B6 tonally speaking.

If what you want to hear what is more the typical 1950's archtop tone than I would look at the Lollar Low Wind, the Benedetto PAF, Gibson 57 or Duncan Antiquity which is my favorite PAF.

[Sam Sherry]

Any thoughts on the difference between Benedetto A6 and B6?

The A6 is a slightly-tweaked basic humbucker. As you know, my opinion is that playing clean, live, with a drummer you will not hear appreciable distinctions between one basic humbucker and another. But a lotta people have made a modest living disagreeing with that statement.

The B6 is not a basic humbucker. It comes from a different starting point and aims in a different direction. See here for extreme technical detail if you care. A lotta people don't like or want different and different doesn't necessarily work 'better' (whatever that means anyway).

I'm not a fan of pickups without screw poles unless the pickup was designed for that particular guitar.

That's a sensible concept; I just wound up in a different place because I point toward a different sound. I really dug the Benedetto B6 on my old El Rey 1 (but ripped them off my semi-hollow in no time flat). Probably my all-time favorite pickup is the Bartolini J5 floating JS-style pickup, which is on my archtop. I was also extremely lucky to find (separately) these two one-off pre-Bartolini Hi-A pickups which are on my semi-hollow.

Vive la difference! Cherchez les tons!

[Max405]

Sam, Im sorry I am late to the thread. I've always been intrigued by this guitar. If I was playing out again, I would strongly consider one (or an ES137). I am glad you made the improvements you made. And it is REALLY cool of you share excellent experience/knowledge with the rest of us.
That's one of the coolest looking guitars out there. Now you got sounding better and more comfy to play.
Thanks,
Joe D.

[Tcaron20]

So I may be nuts but after replacing the stock heavy tuners on my Eastman ER1 with the lighter Waverlys I swear the tone got thinner and sustain shortened. Does a reduction in mass or weight of the tuners have an effect on tone?
Will probably change back to see. Top heavy can be dealt with. Hate to give up some of the richness in tone that I think I lost.

tom