Shipping Guitar from US to Europe

[b_goat]

Hi All,

I've shipped quite a few items in the USA, but never to Europe. What is the best (safest) way to ship a guitar to Austria?

[Jim Soloway]

It depends on a couple of factors: what is the value of the guitar and what is the size of the box. The most economical method is USPS. Based on a 20 lb weight and dimensions of 43 x 17 x 7", priority mail is $117.10. Global Express Guaranteed is $228.15. Both will have insurance limitations but for most countries the limit on prior it will be much lower. The length for priority s 60" (so no problem), for GXG it's 46" (a possible problem). The maximum length plus girth for both of them is 108" (and that limit is very strict). If you can fit those criteria and the insurance is adequate, then its the best way to go. Otherwise the price is quite a bit higher for the commercial carriers.

[Archie]

Sorry I couldn't quite work out where you are shipping from. You mention 'in' the USA, so I'm going to assume that is where your based.

Shipping in itself is just the act of putting something in a box. Whether your sending it down the road, or to china, its still the same.

You pack it well, you book the currier to collect and thats it. You may have to do a fraction more work, like printing out the labels yourself, so when the driver comes to collect, he just scans it and puts it in the van (hopefully nicely lol)

There are some exceptions. I know Australia and japan have extremely tight customs and will require you to fill out forms to do with wood species etc. if you get this wrong, the item could be refused or held by customs.

Europe though should be very straight forward. Just be aware that there are several countries with a bad reputation (whether fairly earned or not)

I am weary of shipping to Italy and Romania (well any eastern European country). You also have to bare in mind that during winter times, nordic countries can be very cold, so if you have a lacquered guitar, make sure the case is good and offers adequate insulation from the weather. Ask the buyer to also let the case sit with the guitar in it, for a couple hours (although I'm sure an hour is fine). That avoids the lacquer cracking but like I said, its only in extremely cold countries and at winter time.

I have sold a fair few guitars to Europe and never had an issue but then I live in England (also Europe lol). You will rarely find the language problem a barrier.

Just make sure that you use paypal or a similar 3 rd party and that the address the money comes from, is a fully 'Registered Address'. Unless you know the buyer well enough to not.

To summarise, it should be no more difficult to post to Europe as it would be within the U:S. In fact I hear the U:S system is awful, so it should actually make a nice change :-)

I would use UPS as Jim suggested, never had a problem with them. Try and use a 3rd party booker though as they will reduce UPS's charges by over half (or there abouts).

Austria seems fine but just make sure that you

1. Take pics of the guitar whilst you pack (this is very important). It shows the guitar your sending is in 1 piece and its condition.
2. Make sure your money is safe. If you get payed via Paypal make sure its a verified paypal address
3. Pack it well, so that there is no movement of the guitar in its case and then within the box, it goes in.

Sorry if some of this is a little over what you requested. I'm just covering all bases.

Good luck!

[Jabberwocky]

Have your Austrian buyer register with Borderlinx and then ship it to its hub in Ohio Buy in the USA, ship to Belgium with Borderlinx

Borderlinx will ship it to Austria and arrange to pay Duty and VAT on your buyer's behalf. It is all done with his credit card. Saves you a lot of hassle as your responsibility ends as soon as it is delivered to Borderlinx in Ohio.

Air-freight of a 48"x20"x8" box is about USD250 all in from Ohio to Austria by Borderlinx.

[Archie]

That sounds amazingly complicated, not to mention the hassle to your buyer.

I think its also a bit early to give postage figures, considering we don't know the guitar size or weight.

$250 also sounds quite expensive to me, unless its on a 24 hour but then you will have to pay Bordelinx a fee for handling.

I would have though postage would have been $150-175

Interesting though. Never knew something like that existed.

Perhaps if you could give the type of guitar it is and value, that would help.

[oldane]

FWIW, I have had guitars shipped from US to Denmark three times. Once with FedEx and twice with UPS. No problems at any of the shippings.

Make shure the buyer understands that he/she has to pay both customs and VAT upon arrival. For some, this comes as a surprice and some get very upset when finding out. The VAT also applies to used goods. The VAT is calculated from the sum of the declared value of the guitar + the customs + the shipping costs. I live in Denmark where we have 25% VAT (I think it's a bit lower in Austria), and the total sum of shipping, customs and VAT can well be around ½ the price of the guitar. That can sound a lot, but bear in mind that there's no VAT payed in US, and a dealer in Europe will also have to factor those costs into his prices.

And 25% VAT - that's a lot. But then we have free health care, no road tolls (except on the bridge over The Greater Belt) etc., so in the end it balances pretty nicely.

[Nils]

Please note, though, that customs can be pretty tight in Europe as well (based on my personal experience from living in both Britain and Denmark). In fact, as we speak I'm waiting for the delivery of a guitar that made the journey from China in 6 days, but has been held up in Danish customs for close to 14 days! I've also tried waiting for a guitar from the US, which eventually travelled across the Atlantic twice. First time around customs sent it back, because they couldn't find the import documentation (which nevertheless was visibly attached to the package). My point is, make sure that all the required import documentation is enclosed (invoice identifying seller + stating value of shipment), and that it is visible on the outer package - otherwise, it might be held up for God-knows-how-long in customs.

[Phil in London]

Some thoughts from a European buyer's perspective:

Purchasing more expensive assets from the US out of Europe through credit card can be a problem, as the € (or £) to US$ conversion in VISA's (etc) systems is typically based on rates which are way off market. In fact, the bid/ask spread and commissions can amount up to some 6 - 7% of the purchase price, which is of course a ridiculous rip off.

The best way for buyer to settle imo is to do some due diligence on the seller, and, if seller seems a credible, established person and appears trustworthy, pay by bank transfer, using existing US$ cash surplus (so no FX conversion necessary). The money usually takes max 3 days to arrive in the US through SWIFT, and so far I had no issues whatsoever with this payment mode (except, of course, that there is always a risk to never receive a guitar - thats the other side of the coin for the buyer. Tracing a fraud through SWIFT is much harder than through paypal.

From experience, I can recommend international shipment via USPS, it's cheap and efficient. As Jim mentions, the box must fit USPS size requirements, which may involve having a box made that fits the case. Shipment to main hubs in France or England will take some 4 days to arrive at customs in Europe. Customs clearance takes usually only 2 to 3 days, and does not necessarily involve the seller at all, if buyer traces the shipment and knows how to contact the authorities. However, seller needs to fill out the shipment docs when posting the item, which can mean that seller has to register at AES Direct, in order to obtain an ITN (I understand that this is a rather tedious task required by US bureau of statistics). Customs charges in Europe are only some 3%, the main charge is import VAT (+/- 20%, depending on the country. Here the dogma is - never meddle with the tax authorities, the old scam to import guitars based on bogus values is dead since ages (tax authorities in Europe have heard of google meanwhile...).

The insurance cap at USPS will often be below the purchase value for more expensive vintage guitars, but this is not so much of an issue, imho, since the benefit of full value insurance for guitar shipments may not be what one would expect. I recently received a fully covered UPS shipment with (fortunately minor) damage (cover 8,000€, damage some 300€), and UPS does everything not to pay. They argue that a) the packaging was insufficient (without explaining why, and without ever inspecting it), and b) the damage could not have happened during the journey (again without any explanation). The arguments seem to contradict each other, and the whole communication process is bizarre (here we would say 'Kafkaesque'). I will never pay their insurance premiums again, because their insurance cover, in practice, seems essentially worthless. Best thing to focus on is to insist on good packaging and proper cushions (which, again, comes down to the trustworthiness of the seller). Generally, given that UPS and FEDEX' fees are some 3-5x of what USPS charges and that their service is neither better nor faster, I accept shipment through those carriers only if seller insists (eg to avoid the hassle of size restrictions).

Bottom line - while the process to ship from US to Europe may be more complicated than to ship from Boston to NY, it is far less onerous than many sellers expect. Be aware that there can be differences in practice between the various European destinations. London, Paris, or Vienna for that matter, should not cause any issues though.

[Phil in London]

Please note, though, that customs can be pretty tight in Europe as well (based on my personal experience from living in both Britain and Denmark). In fact, as we speak I'm waiting for the delivery of a guitar that made the journey from China in 6 days, but has been held up in Danish customs for close to 14 days! I've also tried waiting for a guitar from the US, which eventually travelled across the Atlantic twice. First time around customs sent it back, because they couldn't find the import documentation (which nevertheless was visibly attached to the package). My point is, make sure that all the required import documentation is enclosed (invoice identifying seller + stating value of shipment), and that it is visible on the outer package - otherwise, it might be held up for God-knows-how-long in customs.

Nils, my experience is that it is not necessary to involve the seller in the customs clearance and wait for seller to comply with documents requests (which can be very irritating, especially when the shipment comes from China). The moment you see through tracing of the shipment that the instrument has arrived at customs, contact them as a buyer. What I always do is to send them both the purchase documentation (e.g. Ebay deal confirmation and payment notice), and a print out of the bank confirmation that the respective price was actually paid from my bank to the seller. After receipt of these documents, clearance works usually very quickly. Just now I received an instrument from LA here in France, and the (shortened) tracking from USPS looks like this (read from bottom to top):

Delivered FRANCE September 25, 2014 11:09 am
Arrival at Post Office FRANCE September 25, 2014 4:28 am
Customs clearance processing complete FRANCE September 23, 2014 2:58 pm
Arrived at Customs Clearance FRANCE September 20, 2014 11:23 am
Processed Through Sort Facility ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS) September 17, 2014 9:11 pm
Arrived at Sort Facility ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS) September 17, 2014 9:10 pm
Departed USPS Origin Facility LOS ANGELES, CA 90009 September 17, 2014 10:14 am
Acceptance ... September 16, 2014 10:36 am

All in all 9 days - not too bad.

[Nils]

You're right, Phil. Incidentally that's also what I did (i.e. contacting customs myself as a buyer, once I saw via track-and-trace that they had held the shipment back because of a missing invoice). But it still took two weeks before DK customs even responded, presumably because they have been suffering from a back-log. (Anyway, this may have been an extreme case, and the matter should be sorted now - paid the import duties today, and the guitar should land on my doorstep tomorrow )

My only point is:
Proper documentation = smoother, hassle-free processing,
Insufficient documentation = higher risk of long delays beyond the control of buyer or seller...

[Drifter]

Import cirumstances in Austria may well be totally different than in Germany but for what it's worth, I've always preferred FedEx over UPS and USPS. FedEx are the only ones that do not open the box if an invoice is attached to the outside. Maybe they x-ray it to see what's inside, I don't know, but they won't open the box, so they don't care about the woods used and they don't have to repack it. Big advantage, especially if the seller packed it really well. And they won't notice if the value declaration on the invoice is correct to calculate the import tax. Another advantage.

I would never ever use UPS again as once a guitar from the US arrived with a broken headstock and although fully insured, they didn't want to pay. Huge hassle over years (!!), never again!

[jzucker]

USPS is the cheapest but they will only insure up to $650 on a priority mail international.

What's the cheapest way to ship that will cover $4500?

[jzucker]

fedex doesn't ship to spain
ups wants $700+
DHL wouldn't give a cost estimate since I don't have an account

[whiskey02]

I don't know. But if I were in your position I would contact a major airline to inquire about what they could do (similar to shipping a pet). I would think the buyer would be happy to make a trip to the airport to decrease the chance of damage to a $4500 guitar. Just thinking out loud.

[Philco]

This may be more trouble that it's worth but there is a shipping calculator on this Borderlinx page
Buy in the USA, ship to Spain with Borderlinx

it's set up for Spain. Borderlinx is basically DHL. Perhaps that will give you an idea of an estimate.

Your customer may want to use Borderlinx. This means that he sets up an account with them and they give him an address in the USA. From memory it's in Ohio. .....where the DHL facility is.

So you send the guitar to Ohio and Borderlinx notify the customer it has arrived. They then calculate the freight plus the receiving country's customs or duties charges. The customer pays before the item ships......on line.....and then they ship it to him via DHL. Customs is cleared in the air before the plane lands. The goods do not have to clear customs as they have already been paid for.

I've done this when I bought my Collings CLJ and also with 2 Polytone amps.
Worked like a charm.
Especially good for the seller because you don't have to deal with shipping internationally. You just send to Ohio and you're done.

A lot of sellers from the USA won't ship internationally because of the trouble involved so this is a great way around it.

As I said, probably not what you are looking for but that calculator may help.

[jzucker]

I don't know. But if I were in your position I would contact a major airline to inquire about what they could do (similar to shipping a pet). I would think the buyer would be happy to make a trip to the airport to decrease the chance of damage to a $4500 guitar. Just thinking out loud.

except that the baggage handling is 10x worse than any shipping service. You cannot insure an instrument against baggage handling. It would be the worst option IMO. Unless you pay for a seat in which case a trip to spain would cost a fortune.

[Woody Sound]

fedex doesn't ship to spain

Really, that's odd, I wonder why. I used FedEx to send guitars to Italy and Germany. But that was several years ago.

[Jabberwocky]

USPS is the cheapest but they will only insure up to $650 on a priority mail international.

What's the cheapest way to ship that will cover $4500?

Danny W. recommended this company for music instruments insurance. Why not ask to see if shipping insurance can be bought to cover your guitar for $4500 to ship it to Spain by USPS?

Heritage Insurance Service - Insurance for fine musical instruments Insurance

[vinlander]

I already inquired for Heritage when I bought Jack's Tal exactly because of the insurrance limit with USPS.
Their response was more or less they Don't offer that short term service for delivery only; I guess that service is more an extra feature of their policy when you already have a contract with them.

[2bornot2bop]

I already inquired for Heritage when I bought Jack's Tal exactly because of the insurrance limit with USPS.
Their response was more or less they Don't offer that short term service for delivery only; I guess that service is more an extra feature of their policy when you already have a contract with them.

So how did you "insure" the TF?

[vinlander]

So how did you "insure" the TF?

Poor Tally was not covered more than the 650$ with USPS, I took a gamble and got it 5 days later, I draw a lucky card

[Bobbyjr]

Overseas, you should try DHL, not cheap but that's their area of expertise.

[Jabberwocky]

Borderlinx in Ohio IS DHL. That is the Spanish buyer's solution if he really wants JZ's axe. All JZ has to do is to pack it very well for international shipping and ship it to the buyer's account (some unique number) registered with Borderlinx. Buyer takes care of declaration of value for assessment of import duty, shipping fees, and insurance with Borderlinx. Buyer pays up. Borderlinx ships to him. Your work is done as soon as it is shipped safely to Borderlinx.

A 50"x20"x8" parcel has a billable dimensional weight of 26.5Kg or ~58 pounds. That is how much he will be paying, not the 24 pounds or so that the parcel actually weighs. Let your buyer be aware of that so that he does not get a sticker shock, JZ. It is about $10 to $12 per Kg so expect a bill for about $225 to $300 just for shipping it from Ohio to Spain. That gives you a chance to double-box and stuff it with ample packing materials to protect the guitar since actual weight does not matter as long as it falls under dimensional weight. Every inch counts though so a smaller parcel has lower dimensionable weight.

L"xH"xD"x 36.051/5000 = Dim Weight in Pounds. International freight companies revise this formula from time to time. The divisor used to be 6000.

[jzucker]

Thanks, will they cover $4500 in insurance?

Borderlinx in Ohio IS DHL. That is the Spanish buyer's solution if he really wants JZ's axe. All JZ has to do is to pack it very well for international shipping and ship it to the buyer's account (some unique number) registered with Borderlinx. Buyer takes care of declaration of value for assessment of import duty, shipping fees, and insurance with Borderlinx. Buyer pays up. Borderlinx ships to him. Your work is done as soon as it is shipped safely to Borderlinx.

A 50"x20"x8" parcel has a billable dimensional weight of 26.5Kg or ~58 pounds. That is how much he will be paying, not the 24 pounds or so that the parcel actually weighs. Let your buyer be aware of that so that he does not get a sticker shock, JZ. It is about $10 to $12 per Kg so expect a bill for about $225 to $300 just for shipping it from Ohio to Spain. That gives you a chance to double-box and stuff it with ample packing materials to protect the guitar since actual weight does not matter as long as it falls under dimensional weight. Every inch counts though so a smaller parcel has lower dimensionable weight.

L"xH"xD"x 36.051/5000 = Dim Weight in Pounds. International freight companies revise this formula from time to time. The divisor used to be 6000.

[jzucker]

looks like borderlinx will be $458 to spain. Too much!