Eastman Kent Armstrong Pick Ups - stick with it or upgrade?

[coyote-1]

After some research, here’s what came with the guitar:



Note it has the .022 cap. So the issue is the linear pot. The volume pot works fine IMO. It’s only the tone pot that needs to be changed to audio taper.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

After some research, here’s what came with the guitar:



Note it has the .022 cap. So the issue is the linear pot. The volume pot works fine IMO. It’s only the tone pot that needs to be changed to audio taper.

I don’t know where you got that info, but it contains an error that’s surprising if you copied it from a reputable source. Capacitors are measured in farads (or decimal divisions of farads). The cap is 0.022 microfarads, not Ohms (which are a measure of resistance).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Armstrong "import" pick ups, which are frequently disparaged, are exactly the same design and materials as the hand-wound pickups he makes in Vermont, according to his public statements. The import pickups are hand-wound by a guy in Korea, trained by Kent and using the same designs and materials. Kent has said he does not think they sound inferior at all.

He told me exactly this when I called to ask about a Vermont made replacement for the pickup in my AR810CE7 when I first bought it new in early 2021. He said that he’d be glad to make me a custom version if I could tell him exactly what I wanted to be different, and I realized that there was nothing I really wanted to change. So he told me to save my money.

3 1/2 years later, I love it more than ever. I also have a 16” carved Eastman 7 with a Kent-wound 14 pole that sounds more carved CES than the 810 with floater. I love that one too!

[ccroft]

...FWIW Armstrong "import" pick ups, which are frequently disparaged, are exactly the same design and materials as the hand-wound pickups he makes in Vermont, according to his public statements. The import pickups are hand-wound by a guy in Korea, trained by Kent and using the same designs and materials. Kent has said he does not think they sound inferior at all.

The epoxy resin ones are not made in Korea, however, and are usually what people are referring to as his "hand-wound" pickups. But he has other hand-wound pickups that he makes (e.g., the Rory Gallagher Strat set).

Maybe it's a generalization to say the Eastman 'import' pickups are the same as 'hand-wound'. Maybe it depends on which pickup? I have a Pisano880 that came with a black 12 pole that looks a lot like the epoxy handwound PAF, but they're very different. I know of a few owners of 880's that made the swap and are glad they did,

Little thing: slotted screw on import VS allen key pole pieces. Bigger thing: the case of the import is black metal VS black epoxy resin. Non-thing for me: the epoxy one has 4 lugs, allowing it to easily be wired or switched for split, phase, and series/parallel. Winding or magnets must be different.

Biggest diff is the sound. They say John P had some input on the design of the stock one, but I guess he was going for something a bit different that what I like. For me the epoxy one is just so much better.

So I guess sometimes they're different and sometimes not. Sounds like the metal cased pickups on the 810 are the same either way. Maybe they're the same on the 403 as well.

Gotta love this:

...He said that he’d be glad to make me a custom version if I could tell him exactly what I wanted to be different, and I realized that there was nothing I really wanted to change. So he told me to save my money.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Maybe it's a generalization to say the Eastman 'import' pickups are the same as 'hand-wound'. Maybe it depends on which pickup?.....Sounds like the metal cased pickups on the 810 are the same either way.

My conversation with Kent was specifically about the floaters that came stock on the 2020 / 2021 810CE and CE7. I did not ask him about any other pickups and do not know which (if any) other Asian made "KA"s may be identical in design, materials, and construction to those made by Kent himself. The KA on my Jazz Elite 7 is a wound-in-Vermont 14 pole pickup.

[coyote-1]

I don’t know where you got that info, but it contains an error that’s surprising if you copied it from a reputable source. Capacitors are measured in farads (or decimal divisions of farads). The cap is 0.022 microfarads, not Ohms (which are a measure of resistance).

It’s from Eastman’s own website. As I know how caps are measured, I presumed that it is a mere editing or translation error. The value is in-line with what one would expect in this configuration.

Here’s the info for the AR910ce (current):
AR910CE - Eastman Guitars

You can see the value correctly stated in the same location. So clearly it was a proofreading or translation error or something.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It’s from Eastman’s own website.

That’s a little disconcerting! I hope they’re more careful with specs when picking parts to go into the guitars. My Eastmans have been perfect, but I know they had QC problems about 20 years ago that persisted for a few years. I haven’t heard of a bad one in a long time. I gotta try one of those 0.022 Ohm caps

I just looked at the Eastman site. It still says ‘0.022” Ohms’ for the AR605CED with two Lovers. All of the archtops with Lollar JS floaters say they have a 0.047 uF tone cap, but Lollar recommends a 22 with their JS pickups. So I’m now wondering what’s actually in my guitar as well as the current Eastmans. Either Eastman disagrees with Lollar or we can’t trust the specs on their website.

[coyote-1]

Apparently you have Lovers in your guitar

le tragedie d’autocorrect? lol I imagine that between translation issues and autocorrect that is imperfect, a Chinese guitar company might have occasional issues on their English web pages.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Apparently you have Lovers in your guitar

le tragedie d’autocorrect? lol I imagine that between translation issues and autocorrect that is imperfect, a Chinese guitar company might have occasional issues on their English web pages.

If you mean me, both of my Eastman guitars have KAs. There’s a floater on my 810CE7 and a set 14 pole HW made by Kent in my 16” Jazz Elite. I haven’t opened either guitar to see what pots and caps live inside. They both sound great, and I have no desire to change a thing in either one.

Eastman is a pretty sophisticated organization now. They even have a location in California and a growing global business. I doubt that there’s a language barrier these days.

[Groyniad]

I have an Armstrong HPAG thingy on my 2021 Eastman 580

I have a handmade Armstrong PAF on hand - but the HPAG is so good I haven't bothered swapping it for the more expensive thingy.

I seem to remember that Armstrong Jr himself told me in an email that the HPAG was the real deal - certainly sounds like it.

I prefer it (I think) to a Lollar Imperial (Custom) in a more recent Eastman - and a Seth Lover in a 503. (I think - all three pickups are very good indeed)

[John A.]

I am looking into buying a new Eastman Archtop and am considering whether to replace the pup at the point of purchase for a bare knuckle. I know I could wait and see if I get on with the standard Kent Armstrong designed one, but if I replace upfront I'll get free fitting and its less hassle.

I know pup choice is subjective, but I was wondering how many Eastman owners out there stuck with the standard KA pup and are happy with it. Bottom line I suppose is that if the pup is a weak link I might as well upgrade at purchase.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Coming to this party a little late ...

Not clear which Eastman model and KA pickup you're talking about, but I'll assume you mean the HPA (G for old, N for Nickel, or O for open) pickups that come in the the AR372 and the AR403 and some of their semi-hollow models? I had these (in a D'Angelico semi-hollow) for many years (and they're in zillion other MIK guitars). In terms of "quality" (of materials and assembly) they're as good as anything else. Due to the A5 magnets and ~9k DC resistance they're spec'd with, though, they're somewhat clearer and higher output than a typical PAF style humbucker (e.g., Gibson Classic 57 or Duncan Seth Lover).

I was happy with them for a long time. At some point that changed, though. I'm not entirely sure why (think it may be because the guitar got brighter sounding after a refret), I wound up swapping them out for Stew Mac's PAF style pickups (A2 magnets, under 8k). It's a fairly noticeable difference in sound, and I find that I do prefer this spec. But that doesn't mean you'll have the same feeling about these pickups in a different guitar. It's not really a weak link/upgrade issue. It's much more a matter of subjective preference.