Archtop action height

**Para** · 09-01-2014, 12:51 PM

Just curiosity, what height do you guys set your action at, where do you measure it, difference between treble and bass strings etc.? and what do you consider a low or high action?. I personally prefer what I call a high action. Shredders need not apply

**edh** · 09-01-2014, 08:47 PM

To add to the question...do string size matter when setting action?

**SuperFour00** · 09-01-2014, 09:48 PM

I set every guitar, whether strung with 11s, 12s or 13s, at 2mm over the 12th fret (fretted at the 1st fret) for every string, measured from the bottom of the strings. Is that high or low? Bob Conti thought it was barbarically high, but it seems low to me. Sounds better there, and playing fast seems easier when I really feel the strings.

**fumblefingers** · 09-01-2014, 09:49 PM

shredders?

Benedetto specs are 5/64" and 3/64" at the 12th fret on the 6th and 1rst strings respectively. That's a traditional jazz archtop bubba.

You can always go higher, especially if your guitar is poorly made.

**Kojo27** · 09-02-2014, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

shredders?

Benedetto specs are 5/64" and 3/64" at the 12th fret on the 6th and 1rst strings respectively. That's a traditional jazz archtop bubba.

You can always go higher, especially if your guitar is poorly made.

5/64" is 2 mm. Well, it's 1.98 mm. Same thing, for these purposes, I guess.

3/64" on treble side - wow, that's awfully low. 1.19" I don't even set my Les Paul-style guitar that low, but whatever folks like.

To answer your question: I'd personally consider 1/8" inch very high. That's 8/64ths, of course.

All my guitars, with maybe one exception, is 2 mm and 1.5 mm, bass side and treble side, respectively. Even full-cut acoustic archtops, I set them the same. Some archtop players would die at action that low -- they want 1/4"!!! Insane, seems to me, but they say you can get used to it. Wasn't Freddy Green's set at 1/2"? Ouch! But very loud.

Here's an all-solid acoustic archtop, with nickel strings, played through a mic, with some reverb. Not playing jazz - just checking sound one day, but it shows how very low action can still sound okay. (This one is about 1.5" and 1.25")

https://app.box.com/s/gexmmxnjgv558zxpdv5j

**Para** · 09-02-2014, 04:28 AM

I set mine at the fret where the neck joins the body so on most of my guitars that is the 14th. I set the treble at 2mm and the bass at 2.1mm 13-53 TI flats. I have always considered my action reasonable high, I might have to experiment a bit I like the strings to have enough air to vibrate in. @ Fumblefingers the shredders remark was meant as a joke obviously it wasn't

. that's a nice rhythm sound Kojo. The problem with too high an action as I see it is the guitar tuning going sharp when the strings are fretted.

**Kojo27** · 09-02-2014, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Para

I set mine at the fret where the neck joins the body so on most of my guitars that is the 14th. I set the treble at 2mm and the bass at 2.1mm 13-53 TI flats. I have always considered my action reasonable high, I might have to experiment a bit I like the strings to have enough air to vibrate in. @ Fumblefingers the shredders remark was meant as a joke obviously it wasn't

. that's a nice rhythm sound Kojo. The problem with too high an action as I see it is the guitar tuning going sharp when the strings are fretted.

Para -- some of the others can chime in about this, but seems to me 2mm at the 14th fret is low! At the 12th fret, it's probably 1.8 or so (just guessing), which is definitely on the low end of things. That low E string oscillates in a wide circle, or arc, and has to be high enough off the fingerboard to do that and not touch the frets and buzz. Just the way I see it, and it seems you've got it set about as low it it'd go without rattling against the frets. Also, you'll get better tone with your action up a little.

Is it worth it - having the action a mile high? Not to me, which is why I included the sound clip of the rhythm guitar with the very low action. (Thanks for the compliment, btw!)

**fumblefingers** · 09-02-2014, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Para

I set mine at the fret where the neck joins the body so on most of my guitars that is the 14th. I set the treble at 2mm and the bass at 2.1mm 13-53 TI flats. I have always considered my action reasonable high, I might have to experiment a bit I like the strings to have enough air to vibrate in. @ Fumblefingers the shredders remark was meant as a joke obviously it wasn't

. that's a nice rhythm sound Kojo. The problem with too high an action as I see it is the guitar tuning going sharp when the strings are fretted.

i know. just letting you know that low action is a stereotype that doesn't apply.

and Freddie Green doesn't apply. It is utter nonsense to keep mentioning his setup and playing position. his approach to rhythm guitar playing is still very useful however.

**Patrick2** · 09-02-2014, 11:18 AM

Here's what works for me . . as a starting point. I fret the 6th string at the first fret, then I measure at the 14th fret. My starting point is exactly as stated by fumblefingers . . 5/64". Then I'll do the same on the first string and look for the 3/64" at the 14th fret as well. I'll tweak further to my taste by eye and by ear. No neck (or very few) profiles are identical. The measurements for string height of an arch top should be 5/64" and 3/64", as stated by ff. However, while most good, high quality of craftsmanship necks and fingerboards will respond well to those settings . . some will need further refinement.

**Para** · 09-02-2014, 12:50 PM

Thanks guys I'll give that a try.

**vinlander** · 09-02-2014, 08:22 PM

Well my Arch ladies say so, the bigger the stiffer the deeper

**Danny W.** · 09-02-2014, 10:10 PM

I can't play a guitar set to mfg's specs for any length of time; I try to keep my guitars at .040" on both E strings at the 12th fret, but I have a few that are okay slightly higher. When you set an action this low neck relief is critical--I set mine so that the E strings barely deflect at the eighth fret when the string is held at the first and fourteenth frets. If I find the action has gotten higher due to our very slight changes of season I usually can just adjust the relief to fix it, so I rarely need to touch the bridge.

Danny W.

**Para** · 09-03-2014, 05:18 AM

Wow! that is low Danny, I think Gibson spec is .05 and .07 at the 12th, I basically set my neck relief the same way except I tune to pitch, set the neck straight then back it off until there is just a slight clearence at the 8th fret when the strings are fretted at the first and 14th frets. I've always had a higher action than that but I'm going to give Patricks method a try my hands aren't as strong as they were, I have an old battered 175 I've had since the 60's it has the best neck of any guitar I've owned I'll try it on that. Just out of interest Danny how do you set your pickups, height etc?

**Cunamara** · 09-04-2014, 01:16 AM

I set mine at 4/64 at the 12th fret. Note that proper action is a combination of string height at the nut, proper fretwork, correct neck relief and string height at the end of the fretboard. The string has to be able vibrate freely for the force you will put into it, without striking frets as it vibrates.

I find that flatwounds can be lower than roundwounds and heavier strings can be lower than lighter strings. On my archtop I use Pyramid .011s, alternating between round- and flatwounds as the mood strikes. On my Tele I use D'Addario Chromes .012 flatwounds and I set that action on that at 3/64. The tighter, heavier strings and the exceptionally good fretwork by Warmoth permit this. I also have a fairly light touch.

**Para** · 09-04-2014, 05:08 AM

The string vibration is also affected by the magnetic force of the pickup, with a low action strong magnets too close can pull the string down causing fret rattle.

**ecj** · 09-04-2014, 04:07 PM

I like 2.0mm bass and 1.5mm treble E at the 12th fret. An easy trick is to put a nickel under the low E and a penny under the high E at that fret with the action as low as possible, then bring the action up until the coins fall out. No measurement required and easy to do in the green room if humidity is messing with your setup.

**Danny W.** · 09-04-2014, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Para

Wow! that is low Danny, I think Gibson spec is .05 and .07 at the 12th, I basically set my neck relief the same way except I tune to pitch, set the neck straight then back it off until there is just a slight clearence at the 8th fret when the strings are fretted at the first and 14th frets. I've always had a higher action than that but I'm going to give Patricks method a try my hands aren't as strong as they were, I have an old battered 175 I've had since the 60's it has the best neck of any guitar I've owned I'll try it on that. Just out of interest Danny how do you set your pickups, height etc?

I have no particular method--just crank 'em up or down utill the guitar sounds right. That goes for both the overall pickup height and the pole screws. On floaters I am very careful to get them as leveled and centered as I can.

Danny W.

**ah.clem** · 09-05-2014, 02:21 AM

Agree with FF and Patrick. Nice, low, fast action with 12 flats on my archtops for fingerstyle playing. I have my flat tops higher as I play a lot of open strings in open tunings and I can get fret buzz when I dig in especially on 5 and 6 (10 rounds on the flat tops for Slack Key style for me).

**Epistrophy** · 03-19-2021, 01:34 PM

13-53 flats, 5/64 and 6/64. Just about the bare medium. Lower than that it's low. That's the bare minimum to get all the possible dynamic range out of an electric guitar or archtop.

**deacon Mark** · 03-19-2021, 04:23 PM

4/64 on the high e and 5/64 on the low e at the 12th fret. It can be tweaked a bit above or below this depending the guitar but not over 4/64 on the high e. It can vary depending the the guitar and the scale length. It is also effect the the neck angle in relationship the the plane of the body. A shallower neck angle will generally play easier with regards to tension and then a bit higher action can be used or needs to be used.