New Gibson ES-175 - Quality?

[KEOKI]

Over the weekend I tried a new ES175 that came out of the Memphis Pro Shop. This guitar was made to be period correct. I get that. What I don't get is why any one would pay $4500 for this guitar other than to hang on the wall and/or take to the monthly jazz society meeting. The guitar would not intonate, at least not all the strings at once. The tone knob adjusted the volume and the volume knob changed the tone. The tuners had play in them. The neck was akin to a baseball bat cut in half (personal preference would be something slimmer). But it was period correct. I just couldn't see buying it to use for work. Am I missing something?

[DRS]

Probably

[Greentone]

Keoki,

What do you usually play? If you generally tap a flat-radiused Ernie Ball EVH, the ES-175 is going to be WTF? Also, I wonder if you tried to tune up using "harmonic octaves"--the only thing heard more frequently at Guitar Center than Fade To Black? No guitar intonates properly (i.e., plays in tune) when tuned with harmonic octaves because only the octave intervals are in tune, at that point.

If, OTOH, you play mostly an L5 with 13-58 strings into an Evans RE200, it's likely that you just chanced upon an uncommon lemon of an ES175.

[KEOKI]

Thanks for the interest Green. My archtop is a GB10, usually strung with 12's. It is appropriate for what I use it for which is both solo and with groups two to five pieces. I would love to have a 175 hence my interest. I am just wondering if these limitations come with other $4500 'iconic' archtops. I am certainly glad I was able to try one before placing an order with Sweetwater, etc. I would have been disappointed if the one I played was representative. Thanks again for tour input.

[Jabberwocky]

Is there a particular reason to go with Sweetwater? Do yourself a favour and check out Electric Guitars & Acoustic Guitars | Dave's Guitar Shop .

Are you really paying $4500 for a new Memphis ES-175?

[fritz jones]

just get a vintage guild for like 1k.

[Jabberwocky]

Baseball bat neck: Some like it. Some don't. You can always shave it down if you don't.

Intonation: Blame the shop environment. Easy to nudge the bridge off.

Tuners with play: Blame the Kluson design. Part of its charm or change them.

The 59 ES-175 VOS Reissue is nice when you get it properly set up.

[Bluedawg]

Play as many as you can before you give up any brand and model IMHO ....

The baseball bat neck sounds like a plus to me .... that's the way I like them

sounds like the wiring is screwed up ... gotta wonder if it was "modified" ... then again the tone and volume control on an ES-175 or generally not marked anyways ... maybe your just used to a different set up

As for intonation ... it may need a good set up ... I have to wonder of the bridge is where it should be, which would be an easy fix since they are not glued down and can be moved


The price isn't cheap, but a new Japanese Ibanez Benson will run you around $3500 so it is competively priced as an American made guitar

Whether any of these guitars is worth the cost is always an individual decision anyways ...

[KEOKI]

I just used 'Sweetwater' as a generic representation of the mail order environment I would most likely have to use were I to purchase an archtop like a 175. Thanks for the lead on the others. I will look there. And, I know the neck thing is personal preference. Would not ever be a deal breaker for me.

[Greentone]

Keoki,

Sorry for bustin' your chops. You got a GB10, you know what an archtop does. (NWAS on Fade to Black. ;-) ) It does sound as though you got a bona fide lemon of a 175 that washed up over your transom. Yikes!

There are lots of great archtops out there in guitarland. Enjoy the hunt.

Cheers.

GT

[BCPete]

I played two of these at Long and McQuade in Vancouver. Both had serious buzzing issues, both needed truss rod adjustment and fret levelling. For this money one would expect that an instrument would be properly set up before hanging them on the wall. I think this reflects poor quality control, probably poor woods, on Gibson's part, as well as an irresponsible attitude on the part of the dealer. Caveat emptor!

[ESCC]

Your description of the 175 is very different than how I would describe my 175, just keep looking until you find the right one. They've been making them for many decades with a number of variances.

[rpguitar]

Action height, neck relief (truss rod), and even intonation (bridge position) I expect to adjust myself. Yes, even with a new factory instrument. Frets, however, should be perfect.

I just bought a '63 ES-175 and it needs new frets. But it is 50 years old.

[Greentone]

The volume and tone knows should be on correctly. I went to a shop once where they were selling off of Fender. They had _one_ Strat...so mal-adjusted that it was a dog. Pickups too high (bad on a Strat with their strong pull), action too low, etc. Their point: their G & L guitars were better. Shoot...The Strat wouldn't play in tune.

You think the 175 was a straw man?

[KEOKI]

Thanks for your comments on this. Just to wrap it up...
the neck had a small amount of relief, looked like a factory set up with string height safely high.
the intonation thing would break the deal as the high and low E strings were ok and the G was really out. Tuner not needed. I don't know how moving the bridge fixes that. Maybe new strings but it is USUALLY the high E that loses its intonation, not a wound G.
safe to say I won't be buying that one. Just wish this market presented more opportunities to try good archtops. I take note that the Heritage recently sold here was a beautiful guitar I think might have been right for me. I'm just slow to pull the trigger on mail order.
Finally I value forum members contribution to this subject. Thanks!

[Finn]

Rolling back the tone control can decrease the apparent volume and rolling back the volume does affect the tone. Was the bridge a wooden one or a TOM?

[KEOKI]

Wood

[snoskier63]

just get a vintage guild for like 1k.

+1

Guild made a CE-100 with one or two single coils in it back in the 50's and early60's to compete with the ES-175. They can be had in very good condition for around $1500 USD. To me after comparing mine with an early 60's ES-175 I preferred my Guild. I have always liked Gibson's, but I find Guild guitars to have less quality control issues, although all brands have their lemons. The neck on my 1956 Guild was full, not unlike a baseball bat, but after 58 years it was still straight as an arrow with tons of bridge height. And while the neck was thick my average sized hands had no trouble at all with it.

From 1963/4 to 1970 they had mini humbuckers, and after that full humbuckers.

[Jonathan0996]

You might like the guitar better if you have a good luthier set it up for you and put the pots where they belong.

He can probably carve out the bridge so it will intonate better and an overall setup will certainly make it play better. It seems silly that you should have to do that on an instrument in that price range, but it seems to be how things are these days, at least with Gibson.

I can't guarantee that you'll learn to love the baseball bat neck, but you never know. Once you learn to love 'em there's no turning back. :-)

Good luck with it. It sounds like it has the potential to be a very nice guitar.

[Finn]

Wood

With an archtop bridge the intonation can be affected by changing the string height, guage of strings, moving the bridge etc. it is sometimes necessary to have the bridge on a slight angle to get a balance with the intonation, you can replace the top half of the bridge with a TOM, a Gotoh Nashville style TOM has enough adjustment to get the intonation spot on.

[Encinitastubes]

I purchased one of those pesky '59 Reissues. My problem is that I couldn't find a neck thick enough. The '58s or '59s that I found were either in bad condition or out of financial reach. I bought a few '60s models, but found one dog and one with a pencil neck. I finally took the plunge on the Reissue and have been very happy. The set up was perfect and it is a beautiful blonde, which I like. I'm very happy with it.

[KEOKI]

Beautiful. Thanks

[Cunamara]

Baseball bat neck: Some like it. Some don't. You can always shave it down if you don't.

Intonation: Blame the shop environment. Easy to nudge the bridge off.

Tuners with play: Blame the Kluson design. Part of its charm or change them.

The 59 ES-175 VOS Reissue is nice when you get it properly set up.

Seriously? A nearly $5000 guitar that needs all that work to be a playable, reliable, professional grade guitar? No thanks. Hell, a Norlin era guitar would be less of a headache.

[Bluedawg]

Seriously? A nearly $5000 guitar that needs all that work to be a playable, reliable, professional grade guitar? No thanks. Hell, a Norlin era guitar would be less of a headache.

Other than shaving the neck .. a good set up is no big deal .... it's not a lot of work,

IMHO a good dealer will do the initial set up for you .... for free if you are buying the guitar from them ... even better yet learn to do it yourself ... it's not a big deal

even if a guitar leaves the factory perfect there's no guarantee that it will still be perfect after shipping and certainly not after it has been hanging in a store for a few months or in storage ... and there's no guarantee that if it leaves the factory perfect for me it will be good for you ...

these things are made of wood ... not some immutable high tech material

I'm surprised the guitar in question has a wooden bridge ... they usually have an adjustable metal TOM bridge which has plenty of adjustment for intonation .... but even the wooden bridge may work if you can find a sweet spot that takes care of things .... if that doesn't work there are compensated wooden bridges that aren't that expensive

[Encinitastubes]

My guitar shipped from Memphis to the midwest to California. Since I've had it, I've been experimenting with strings. I also like high action. The factory set up is really irrelevant. The '59 Reissues have a wooden bridge. Mine seems to work fine.