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The main thing is does it feel, play and sound as good as it looks? To me, if the answer is yes, I could care less how it is manufactured
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08-13-2014 04:19 PM
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Good point, it feels, plays and sounds great. The problem is nerding out on the internet about musical instruments are half the fun of these type of boards.
Originally Posted by Forensbro
The main thing is does it feel, play and sound as good as it looks? To me, if the answer is yes, I could care less how it is manufactured.
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I agree Ghostlady. I've got a JN due to arrive next Monday and am looking forward to giving it a drive along with the Hawk Jazz. Bad GAS
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OK, that's the short reply and I agree. Originally Posted by 339 in june
Here's the long reply:
If a router bit is used to shape a solid piece of wood, regardless of the technology behind it, the top is carved.
It doesn't necessarilly need to be "hand-carved" - makers spend more or less time after the piece is removed from the jig to tune it, adjust the recarve, sand it and so forth. Or not. Some companies don't bother to do much but final sanding. Some small builders carve the whole plate using hand tools, which I think is a colossal waste of time, but if they can leverage that process into bigger revenue dollars, then power to them.
No guitar manufacturer will miss the opportunity to promote that the wood has been carved as opposed to pressed.
If that is not the case, guitar manufacturers will attempt to avoid saying it, using other words, ambiguity, puffery, misdirection, etceteras.
"Machine curved solid spruce" is ambiguous. It means more than one thing. So the copy is either:
- poorly translated
- a genuine misunderstanding of the nuances of English
- a typo
- intended to cloud the issue.
- some combination of the above
Let's dig into the site for clues, eh?:
NYL-1Teardrop - 2,200,000 yen
NYL-1 / NYL-3 / NYS-1 / NYL-7- 1,600,000 yen
"All hand curved solid 35mm German spruce top,
Solid maple back and rims."
NYL-2Custom / NYS-2Custom - 540,000 yen
"Single CNC (computer numeral control)) curved top / Single maple rim & back"
"The semi acoustic series share the same curved solid spruce body top used with the NY-2 and the quality material of the full acoustic series.
1 ply flame maple back and rims."
NYL-2 / NYL-4 / NYL-5 / NYS-2 / NYL-2DH / NYL-2FH / NYL-2LEFTY - 420,000 yen
NYL-5FH - 350,000 yen
"Press curved solid spruce top
5 ply flame maple back and rims"
Aha! Clues!
Hmmmm….I vote for door #5!Last edited by Hammertone; 08-13-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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OK, all kidding aside, the pricing certainly helps sort out the intent. My guess is that "curved" is a misnomer for "carved", except for the last grouping, where "curved" is probably a misnomer for "arched."
NYL-1/NYL-3/NYS-1/NYL-7- 1,600,000 yen - @US$15,620 - list price
NYL-1Teardrop - 2,200,000 yen - @US$21,500 - list price
"All hand curved solid 35mm German spruce top"
This means carved with a bunch of hand work, tap tuning, meditation and recitation of haikus on the nature of sound, yadda yadda. I would hope that they start with a top that has been rough-carved by a machine.
NYL-2Custom/NYS-2Custom - 540,000 yen - @US$5,275 - list price
"Single CNC (computer numeral control) curved top / Single maple rim & back"
"The semi acoustic series share the same curved solid spruce body top used with the NY-2 and the quality material of the full acoustic series.
This means that the top is carved by a machine. Presumably a bit of final sanding by hand.
NYL-2/NYL-4/NYL-5/NYS-2/NYL-2DH/NYL-2FH/NYL-2LEFTY - 420,000 yen - @US$4,100 - list price
NYL-5FH - 350,000 yen - @US$3,420 - list price
"Press curved solid spruce top"
This means that the top is pressed. Not Carved.
Last edited by Hammertone; 08-15-2014 at 02:36 AM.
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BTW, Ghostlady, i love modular synths, don't have the money for them but own some good VST replicas, Aalto, Xils3, Bazille, etc...
Any links to your music ?
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So curved is basically as clear as mud in japanese, as they refer to everything as curved. With that being said, everywhere where it is press arched is usually pretty explicit that is the case as well (aka D'Aquisto, as well as D'Angelico). The marketing towards carved tops is more of an american thing, most of the market for fujigen has been inside japan where their manufacturing techniques maybe a more known quantity. They only recently have been trying to get into the American market. With that being said in nearly every factory tour video there is no archtop heat press, just rows and rows of CNC machines grinding away guitar bodies/components. How to market these guitars to the US or Europe maybe a bit of a mystery to them. US guitar buyers tend to be very specs oriented, especially nearer to the higher end.
Either way I emailed them for further clarification on the matter.
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They've been doing it for 40 years, I doubt the mystery still remains, unless by choice ;-) Originally Posted by Ghostlady
Japanese manufacturers have previous on some rather shady descriptions and have always tried to be mysterious about how their guitars are manufactured. I think it started back in the days when they were making budget copies and they wanted some models to appear, more like the real thing, so avoided making certain revelations about the materials and construction.
If they can market 'ebonised' rosewood, they can market pressed, carved, solid or laminate IMO.
Heres a catalogue from History and CoolZ guitars.
http://www.shimamura.co.jp/originalb...ory_Coolz1.pdf
Notice how they get real technical about the specs, yet whenever it comes to talking about wood, it gets really vague. Yet they can call the centre block of a 335 a "heritage wood hard maple block"
They like to be specific when they have something to good but vague as hell when it comes to
1. Finishes (lacquer top coats etc)
2. Materials used, (if cheap and or used under cheap construction)
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Well they responded to me that it is solid, but pretty vague otherwise, and I will take that as the case. Whether it's pressed or cnc'd is another question. The arch on the guitar is not especially dramatic, though I am not sure that means anything.
So I took pictures of the inside, and I noticed something with the top which is not the case with laminates I have. There is a bit of smoothness on the inside top and back to laminates I have, no such case here. There is no smoothness to the top, it's far less clean It was a bit sawdusty on the top upon touch, a very fine sawdust though. The mystery continues. I also have no clue what is up with the tape.
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I have complicated feelings to the VST plugins which try to emulate modulars, they kind of miss the mark in some ways. There is a certian degree of unpredictability/chaos, and just the raw organic nature of modular synthesis. While I like the fact vsts have put synthesizers in the hands of more people, I now believe something is lost in translation as well. Originally Posted by xuoham
In terms of music, this is my electronic stuff, but I would like to warn people, it is very much in the avante garde and experimental realm, which is not for everybody.
I will eventually post stuff with guitar, my studio is set up but I am set to go on my honeymoon this weekend.Last edited by Ghostlady; 08-14-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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I have an Ibanez FA-800 and although it has a solid hand carved top, I was highly suspicious of it for ages. Originally Posted by Ghostlady
The grain is so tight and disappears all together in some places. The underneath (if carved) should be smooth as hell, from the finishing but its actually a little ruff (something I usually associate with laminates).
It does however have an excellent sound, superior to that of a laminate imo, so I was really unsure.
I took it to a luthier who confirmed that it was solid and that many mass producers don't spend the time to do the final finish to the standards of a more meticulous builder.
I wonder if it was done on cnc? That might explain the ruff underside. On the other hand, if they say hand carved, they must have had to do some carving by hand. And being since it's 1980 thats probably the case.
Should I?
Yehhh!
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P.s I wouldn't worry about the tape, it's probably just a subtle form of shibari ;-)
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Pre-1981 there was no extensive use of CNC in guitar manufacturing, so it was probably hand carved. The CNC techniques to create archtops are a much more recent phenomenom.
Last edited by Ghostlady; 08-14-2014 at 06:24 PM.
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It's all solid (single piece for each part, not 3-ply) and heat pressed (as suspected by hammertone). This explains the matching grain with the maple back. They finally wrote back. So it's similar to the peerless monarch, but smaller, and made in japan. Kind of like an all solid Ibanez GB-15, without the GB price tag.
Supposedly they do not make to many of these because of the production demands right now from gretsch and ibanez.Last edited by Ghostlady; 08-15-2014 at 02:24 AM.
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Received the MFA-FP-JN today and it is a wonderful guitar. The workmanship is flawless and comparatively speaking the guitar is as light as a feather. It has a very comfortable neck and body profile and has a great acoustic and electrified sound. The pickup has good output, great note separation and is not muddy at all. The push-pull tone control is a very nice feature and could prove to be useful in certain situations. The guitar also came with a Gotoh tune-o-matic bridge as well as the carved ebony bridge plus a strap button should one choose to install it. All-in-all for a brand new guitar I consider it to be a great purchase for $2199 w/free UPS shipping from California. I'm sure you could find another brand used guitar for less with great playability and sound, but I don't think you'd be disappointed if you took a chance and bought a brand new FGN MFA-FP. I've paid way more for some Gibson guitars that are heavy and don't have as good a build quality as the FGN MFA-FP-JN. Of course this is all my opinion and your mileage and tastes may vary
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