replacing the tuners on my Cordoba Nylon String

**richb2** · 07-19-2014, 02:50 PM

I have a gK Studio which I am very happy with. I find that when I tune (it has a built in tuner) I have a hard time zeroing in on the correct note. In the past with my electrics I found that replacing the gibson tuning heads with Schallers made the guitar's tuning much more exact. Is the a tuning head manufacturer for classical guitars on the same level as Schaller is for electrics?

Here are the specs for the stock tuners:

Give your nylon string guitar a modern twist with these black & gold floral Cordoba tuning machines. This set comes with the black ebony-style buttons already installed and mounting screws.

Gear ratio is 14:1. The string roller spacing is 35mm.

Tuning machines may be purchased as a full set or separately (options listed below are what is currently in stock - please check back later if you need just the Bass side or a full set). As seen on 2014 Cordoba C7, C7-CE, GK Studio and GK Studio Negra models. (Treble side pictured)

*The terms "treble" and "bass" refer to right handed models. For a "bass" side on a left handed model, choose "treble", and vice versa.

**Dave70** · 07-19-2014, 03:02 PM

I just got a GK Studio Negra and have no problems tuning. Do you mean that the built in tuner doesn't recognise which note you're tuning to?

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2014, 03:08 PM

of course there are fine tuners if that's what you mean. Graf and Rodgers.

but this is a Cordoba so that would be going overboard. Why not consult with the guys at Guitar Salon? They sell tuners (and of course own Cordoba).

Good luck.

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2014, 03:39 PM

here ya go.

Machine Heads - Guitar Salon International

**richb2** · 07-19-2014, 04:39 PM

$800 for tuners? That is insane.

**Mimbler** · 07-19-2014, 05:03 PM

I build classicals, and find most tuning problems are caused by the nut slots preventing good rendering of the strings. Nearly any tuner will do a serviceable job tuning when the nut is good, although the more expensive ones will look better and feel smoother. A set of Rubners at 80 to 100 dollars will get you all the functionality a tuner needs. Money would probably be better spent having a luthier spend a little quality time on the nut slots (shouldn't cost much),
Mike

**PTChristopher2** · 07-19-2014, 05:25 PM

>>> most tuning problems are caused by the nut slots preventing good rendering of the strings. Nearly any tuner will do a serviceable job tuning when the nut is good,

>>> Money would probably be better spent having a luthier spend a little quality time on the nut slots

Great, and in my opinion superbly accurate summary.

Chris

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2014, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by richb2

$800 for tuners? That is insane.

There was a set for $450 and one for $80 as well.

you wanted to know if there were good tuners out there, and I mentioned and showed you some of the best across a board spectrum of price points.

you failed to mention that you were cheap.

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-19-2014, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by richb2

$800 for tuners? That is insane.

I suppose to some, yes. Once you are past $200-$300 Gotoh 35G510s it is not about performance (these are spectacularly good 16:1 tuners mechanically). Some might even find these to be extravagant.

Tuners by small shop artisans like Jorge Graf and Rob Rodgers are about the small scale precision machining, quality of plate materials, the engraving, the button materials and their design. Yes, they function well, but not any better than the Gotohs (some might even say not as well). They are primarily chosen because of their aesthetic qualities. On a classical guitar, like the rosette, the tuner plates are a highly decorated feature. You usually will find these tuners on high-end custom luthier builds where choosing them means a 5-10% up charge in instrument price.

**PTChristopher2** · 07-19-2014, 06:14 PM

>>> you failed to mention that you were cheap.

Of course if one is not trying to be insulting, it is not a question of being cheap.

Some may enjoy the extravagance of capital letters at the beginning of sentences, but also agree that the lack of such does not render the sentence less meaningful. On the contrary, such a sentence can carry some incremental meaning as to form.

Some enjoy the extravagance of buying extra effort and attention in a device that is not really associated with improved function. Others enjoy understanding form and function and finding what they call an optimal balance vs. a larded style of throwing cash at something.

As mentioned, the most typical causes for trouble are in the nut in my opinion and experience. So the tuners may not be a practical issue anyway. But if they prove to be, there is a typical enough price range with its upper end of limited added value and function to many, but a unique and pleasing value to some.

Sorry for the conspicuous use of lavish capitalization.

Kind of a pun on "capital", if you will.

Chris

**richb2** · 07-19-2014, 06:56 PM

excellent idea. Now to find a luthier..... I am in NJ USA. Any ideas? And what do I tell them? Do I need the nutt slots "massaged" to get granular tuning? That is engineering speak. How do I say it so a luthier will understand?

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2014, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher2

>>> you failed to mention that you were cheap.

Of course if one is not trying to be insulting, it is not a question of being cheap.

Some may enjoy the extravagance of capital letters at the beginning of sentences, but also agree that the lack of such does not render the sentence less meaningful. On the contrary, such a sentence can carry some incremental meaning as to form.

Some enjoy the extravagance of buying extra effort and attention in a device that is not really associated with improved function. Others enjoy understanding form and function and finding what they call an optimal balance vs. a larded style of throwing cash at something.

As mentioned, the most typical causes for trouble are in the nut in my opinion and experience. So the tuners may not be a practical issue anyway. But if they prove to be, there is a typical enough price range with its upper end of limited added value and function to many, but a unique and pleasing value to some.

Sorry for the conspicuous use of lavish capitalization.

Kind of a pun on "capital", if you will.

Chris

hey, he asked for tuners. Tuners I gave him.

Are you saying that the $80 pair that I showed him is too extravagant?

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-19-2014, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by richb2

excellent idea. Now to find a luthier..... I am in NJ USA. Any ideas? And what do I tell them? Do I need the nutt slots "massaged" to get granular tuning? That is engineering speak. How do I say it so a luthier will understand?

I use Mark Simon

Mark Simon - Luthier

**PTChristopher2** · 07-19-2014, 07:06 PM

Rich,

In my opinion you may do best to first off find a very good luthier, vs. a more broad-market tech.

The difference between an OK nut and a superbly cut one can be remarkable in terms of tuning, playability and low-position intonation.

Slot height, slot slope, slot width, slot shape (at the base) and slot profile (sharp exit at the FB end, rounded exit at the tuner end) can all contribute more than you might expect.

It is not at all hard to do, but in my opinion you may need to look a bit to get someone to simply pay attention to detail - probably much like gall bladder surgery only more important.

Chris

**PTChristopher2** · 07-19-2014, 07:10 PM

Hi Fumbles,

Just a fun-snarky response as part of the brawl that is a forum.

>>> hey, he asked for tuners. Tuners I gave him.

I guess there is no term in English for intentional obtuseness. So yes indeed you answered the call.

>>> Are you saying that the $80 pair that I showed him is too extravagant?

I am not even saying that $800 tuners are not of value to some.

Just saying that calling him cheap may not be the most accurate summary. Much like new tuners are not often the solution to tuning problems.

just my jerk-forum-guy opinion.

Chris

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2014, 09:32 PM

**Beanctr** · 07-20-2014, 07:59 AM

Keep in mind when you change the tuners on a Cordoba guitar you may have to drill the roller holes larger.

I changed the tuners on my C-10 to Gotoh and had to drill.

Rick

**PTChristopher2** · 07-20-2014, 09:22 AM

Indeed Beanctr.

And if I may add an opinion, a "drill" bit is a remarkably dangerous tool to use for enlarging an existing hole, especially with thin walls and grabby-yet-fragile wood grain.

Far better to either hand ream the holes with a very good reamer, or if you must use a drill bit, then securely fill the existing holes and then drill with a Forstner.

EDIT: When reaming, I then need to clean up the taper in the hole with a sanding dowel. Others may have a notably better way to do this.

I very much congratulate Beanctr and skilled others who have simply drilled out existing holes with a twist drill bit. I could not have brought myself to try it that way.

Chris

**richb2** · 07-22-2014, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

yes but all he could do was find the most expensive one and complain.

as opposed to saying "thanks man"!

or

"do you know of any between $100 - and $300? those look good but are a little bit pricey for me"

lol. i guess no good deed goes unpunished.

Classical Guitars - 2011 Tobias Braun SP/SW - Guitar Salon International

Nothing ticks me off more than someone complaining about someone complaining. Makes me want to forsake this forum for a year or two again. What is it about this forum that draws such mindsets?

**Beanctr** · 07-22-2014, 02:25 PM

I've had two Cordoba guitars, bottom line is the stock tuners are decent tuners. If you are not used to tuning a nylon string guitar give it some time. They are much harder than tuning a steel string. You may have to tune each time you play the guitar. If you change strings it takes about a week for them to settle down, as opposed to steel which takes 5 min. Rick

**mr. beaumont** · 07-22-2014, 02:49 PM

Sounds like the built in tuner is over-sensitive.

Buy a snark and be done with it.

**feral guitar** · 07-22-2014, 03:15 PM

I'd like to complain about the complaining about the complaining about the initial complaint.

**SuperFour00** · 07-22-2014, 03:34 PM

It's almost never the tuners. I've never had a problem with ebony pegs in a Flamenco style headstock. That's some Medieval technology there.

**brad4d8** · 07-23-2014, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by richb2

excellent idea. Now to find a luthier..... I am in NJ USA. Any ideas? And what do I tell them? Do I need the nutt slots "massaged" to get granular tuning? That is engineering speak. How do I say it so a luthier will understand?

Once you find one, just tell him that you think the strings are hanging up in the nut slots. I would recommend a luthier who regularly works on classicals as the nuts need to be set up a little differently than steel string nuts. Before you take it to one, you might try a little graphite (even pencil lead could be okay) in the slots and see if it helps.
Brad

**PTChristopher2** · 07-23-2014, 04:25 PM

>>> the nuts [on nylon string guitars] need to be set up a little differently than steel string nuts.

How so? I mean what is the set up difference you mention?

It is just that I guess I have done far more nuts than I'd want to count, but I never considered there to be a fundamental difference in a nylon string vs. steel string nut.

There is a slightly different string settling-in process when getting the strings installed and then doing final slot height - but the targets and principles are the same in my opinion.

Thanks,

Chris