Gibson L-5 Compared to Other Gibson Archtop Guitars

**pubylakeg** · 07-12-2014, 06:28 PM

I think what's starting to distill here is "buy the thing that makes you want to play the hell out of it."
And don't forget the NGD pics !

**Phiberopttic** · 07-12-2014, 08:28 PM

Yes, thats been my mentality. It would be my first carved archtop guitar, so I was curious how the L5 compares with the luthier-made (boutique?) carved archtops; knowing that there are so many great guitars (including laminents) on the market these days. The only comparison I have to go on is laminate top vs solid wood classical guitars, but this doesnt seem to hold up, as my laminate top ES175 sounds great; and I never found a laminate top classical that I liked.

I've decided that I'm good with spending the money, so I've arranged to spend some time with the guitar. If I buy it, I'll post pictures and initial impressions.

Thanks for the feedback. If anyone has additional thoughts on how the L5 compares to other carved top guitars, I'm all ears.

Cheers!

**SierraTango** · 07-12-2014, 09:03 PM

Fasten your seat belts-I predict many will jump on that last comment. I've owned a L-5CES, and there is no doubt that it is THE landmark jazz instrument for so many talented guitarists. I never bonded with mine and sold it on. Forum member Patrick, and many others here, will champion the Heritage Golden Eagle, which is plainspeak is a reincarnation of the L-5 with (many will agree, including myself) superior QC than Gibson provided during certain periods of L-5 production.

Since it is such an icon, several top notch custom builders have been successfully producing stunning instruments with L-5 specs for many years, including Mark Campelleone, Jim Triggs (who worked for Gibson), and the list goes on. I've heard some comments that if you want a better L-5 than Gibson produces, call Mark. After sampling several of his guitars I can see why.

Also Benedetto builds superb 17" carved top instruments. He had many students including Buscarino, Unger, Comins that build magnificent guitars. It took me 25 years to get my Benedetto, and I would not sell it for any amount of money.

Now for the personal agenda. The Guild Artist Award gets much love from many on the forum. Perhaps not as much cred as the L-5, and since it doesn't say Gibson in the headstock the status and resale are not on par with the L-5 in many cases. However, they are a very, very fine instrument with specs very close to the L-5. Hand carved, fantastic quality control, excellent playabillity, and art deco appointments to die for. before you part with your funds, play a Artist Award. That is, if you are looking for a non CES type guitar with built in pickups of course. That is the game changer. As I noted in a previous post, mine is on the market, however I don't care if you purchase mine or another one-they are simply wonderful guitars

**fumblefingers** · 07-12-2014, 09:04 PM

i think its reasonably priced (assuming you negotiate, as you should).

yes it can probably be beat by the best custom luthiers, but not for the same price.

so if it's in good condition and you like a 25.5 scale, you should be happy. (disclaimer, i prefer the floating pickup models from Gibson, but many prefer the L5)

(I own both custom luthier guitars and Gibson archtops)

**Phiberopttic** · 07-12-2014, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by SierraTango

Forum member Patrick, and many others here, will champion the Heritage Golden Eagle, which is plainspeak is a reincarnation of the L-5 with (many will agree, including myself) superior QC than Gibson provided during certain periods of L-5 production.

This is a concern that I eluded to with my ES175. The binding is a mess, in places, with tool marks and a weird capping in one spot. Its cosmetic, doesnt effect the way that the guitar plays or sounds. But gives me pause when thinking about the parts of the guitar that I cant see, that do effect sound.

Originally Posted by SierraTango

Since it is such an icon, several top notch custom builders have been successfully producing stunning instruments with L-5 specs for many years, including Mark Campelleone, Jim Triggs (who worked for Gibson), and the list goes on. I've heard some comments that if you want a better L-5 than Gibson produces, call Mark. After sampling several of his guitars I can see why.

Also Benedetto builds superb 17" carved top instruments. He had many students including Buscarino, Unger, Comins that build magnificent guitars. It took me 25 years to get my Benedetto, and I would not sell it for any amount of money.

The Benedetto's, Comins' and Buscarino's look extraordinary, absolutely beautiful. But out of my price range at the moment. Like I said in the beginning, I was planning on a Sadowsky 17" (used, in the $3500 range), when this L5 suddenly showed up.

**peterbright** · 07-12-2014, 10:33 PM

If you want options...a used Heritage Eagle Classic or Golden Eagle are excellent options and priced quite low and can be found with single floaters and set in PU's as well.

**SierraTango** · 07-12-2014, 11:17 PM

Don't want to hog the thread, many members more expert than myself, and some of my advice has already been given by others. Remember in most situations a Gibson L-5 is like money in the bank if you don't like it and want to move it-a blue chip investment. I would humbly express that Guild, Heritage and some others still blue chip but slightly less so. This is based on personal experience.
Since many of the custom builders such as Buscarino, Campelleone, Unger, Comins, Triggs etc were custom orders with unique specs they may stay on the market for some time before finding the right buyer. That and the prices.
As has been stated, it really comes down to the instrument that you are able to express your unique voice with. Kismet may happen with an L-5, and then-hey presto-problem solved! However, don't dismiss Guild out of hand. They also produced some excellent solid, carved archtops (the X-700 comes to mind) in CES form. I heard Jimmy Bruno play one solo at the Jazz Bakery with a AI amp and RE cab and I don't think I've heard better tone from him.
Good luck!

**Groyniad** · 07-13-2014, 06:01 AM

And there's no such thing as an 'L5' - is there? The new ones have great flame maple but are built very heavy and sound very ampy and super-smooth. The old ones are either super-expensive (and less heavy built with a more interesting stringier sound) - or have necks that are much too thin - or come from a 'bad' time in Gibson's history. My hunch is they sell so many L5s now because they appeal to players playing much louder groups than your typical jazz player does. I had a newish super 400 for a year or so - it had a nice thick sound (a bit too electric-sounding for my present taste) - but I was not impressed by the feel of the thing. It certainly came no where near being as convincing as any of the Campellone guitars I've seen. I have a Johnny Smith style Campellone because I think he does the gibson thing better than they do. That is to say - better than modern Gibsons and at least as well as the classic super-expensive ones. The crucial thing is not build quality - though that is just fab. - its SOUND. The campellone guitars sound like classic gibsons - or maybe even just a bit nicer than classic gibsons. They're not too smooth like the new gibson guitars - but they're a tad fuller sounding than the fifties instruments.

**rpguitar** · 07-13-2014, 06:41 AM

Well, let's simplify things a little. You have mentioned a $3500 budget and there is one specific L-5CES (CES, right?) that has made itself available at around that price. If true, then that's the only L-5CES we're considering here, and whatever folks are saying about different generations of Gibson archtops is interesting, but not too relevant. Is that accurate? $3500 is a really great deal on an L-5 of pretty much any stripe, barring one that is trashed of course.

What year is this mystery L-5CES, and is it a CES or Wes Montgomery model? Condition? Photos?

**Patrick2** · 07-13-2014, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

And there's no such thing as an 'L5' - is there? The new ones have great flame maple but are built very heavy and sound very ampy and super-smooth. The old ones are either super-expensive (and less heavy built with a more interesting stringier sound) - or have necks that are much too thin - or come from a 'bad' time in Gibson's history. My hunch is they sell so many L5s now because they appeal to players playing much louder groups than your typical jazz player does. I had a newish super 400 for a year or so - it had a nice thick sound (a bit too electric-sounding for my present taste) - but I was not impressed by the feel of the thing. It certainly came no where near being as convincing as any of the Campellone guitars I've seen. I have a Johnny Smith style Campellone because I think he does the gibson thing better than they do. That is to say - better than modern Gibsons and at least as well as the classic super-expensive ones. The crucial thing is not build quality - though that is just fab. - its SOUND. The campellone guitars sound like classic gibsons - or maybe even just a bit nicer than classic gibsons. They're not too smooth like the new gibson guitars - but they're a tad fuller sounding than the fifties instruments.

You're expressing your own opinion on this matter as though it was the gospel according to Jobe. The only thing that you've said that makes any sense at all, is that there is no such thing as 'an' L5 . . if I'm interpretting it correctly to mean that they're all different, unique unto themselves. However, you don't point out the same sentiments as it relates to Mark's guitars.?.? Mark Campellone is a great builder .. no doubt. Yet, his build methodes, techniques and wood choices are incredibly similar to those of Gibson for their L5 guitars. It's true that Mark's final carve on the top sound board is thinner that the L5CES . . braced slightly different too. But, at the end of the day . . they're quite similar. The great thing about mark's guitars . . is that you can order and spec one brand new for about the same . . possible a little less money than an L5CES. But then, it still wouldn't be 'an' L5CES . . . would it???

**yebdox** · 07-13-2014, 10:39 AM

I have worshipped at the altar of Wes for 40 years. When I could afford an L5, I bought one. Didn't shop much, as I don't live near any dealers that had one to play. Was it necessary? No. I have 15 other guitars, including a Sadowsky Jim Hall and a GB10. It's a heavy guitar, I'm not super comfortable with the longer scale, I prefer 24.75. It does feed back a bit, it doesn't sound like a strat or a Tele or a Les Paul, or a 335, or a Sadowsky or an Ibanez. It probably doesn't even sound like a 50's or 60's L5.

But it does have a beautiful sound with wonderful, rich overtones and a great neck. And if you are trying to cop Wes' tone when studying and transcribing, it's easier to do with an L5 than with a lot of other guitars. Which makes it more fun.

Is it necessary? No. Are there "better" guitars out there for the money, either custom or import? Most likely. Can you wind up with a bad or average one? Sure. Is it a great investment? Depends. Should you spend more time dreaming about an iconic piece of gear, rather than practicing and playing? Probably not, but if having one inspires you to play, then you should try it and see what it does for you.

Does it matter what I think? Only to me. But I will encourage you to pursue what inspires you and leave the rest behind. Inspiration doesn't always show up in practical, logical or affordable packages. Gear can be a distraction or an inspiration. But, if you think it's important, you should go for it. You will very likely survive the outcome, regardless of what you take away.

Me, I'm keeping mine.

**Groyniad** · 07-13-2014, 11:19 AM

is it your opinion that the only thing i said that made any sense at all was... or is that the gospel according to st jobe? my first sentence is a question dude.

(in my opinion) you can get mint second hand campys for 3500 - as new. (in my opinion) mark's guitars do vary of course - but not like factory guitars do. that's one of the things that makes them so hard to resist if you can't try lots of appropriate jazz guitars.

i used a jim hall sadowsky for over a year on the bandstand. best gigging guitar ever - but i still got rid of it because there's more to a guitar than being good on a gig. the hand carved floater guitars may not work quite as well on gigs in some ways (they're hopeless if you need to play loud) - but they more than amply compensate by being so responsive and musically satisfying.

blind (or deaf) - and with no financial issues - i would go for a campellone over an L5. i think they're much more reliable - and i think that a typical campellone is probably a slightly better musical instrument than the best L5 (say L5c vs campy 17'' with floater). best place i know to hear the differences between these instruments is the nice series of vids Keith Murch has made on youtube. look up keith murch on youtube and you'll find some very interesting comparisons. He's got a 50's L5, a 2006 L5 and two campellones - and he plays very nicely so you can hear the instruments well.

**Phiberopttic** · 07-13-2014, 12:34 PM

The guitar I'm looking at is a L5-CES, 1997, $5500, made in Boseman MT; according to a Gibson serial number search. I know little to nothing about Gibsons, other than my experiences with my ES175 and LP Custom. I've been trying to find information and/or user stories on L5s from 1997, but havent found much. It was other discussions/reviews that lead me to this forum.

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-13-2014, 12:50 PM

Why are threads about L5s frequently so volatile? If it's about a used one for sale, more often than not the conversation feels a bit like I am witnessing a blood sport. If it is about an L5 vs. another instrument it frequently turns into a volatile and argumentative discourse. People have differing opinions and forums like these are vehicles to hear them.

For many players, a Gibson L5 is a "must" (same can be said for an ES-175, ES-335, Les Paul, Fender Telecaster, Fender Stratocaster etc.). It really depends on the type of music you play and your value system as to whether its the correct choice for you. We are fortunate today to have many great options in archtop guitars. A Gibson L5 new or used can be an excellent choice for some players. Like all factory guitars which are manufactured to spec., there will be considerable variability in their sound (more so unplugged). Personally, I have no need for an L5, I think that there are better options for my particular style of play.

Good Luck!

**yebdox** · 07-13-2014, 12:53 PM

Mine is a '98 Wes. Nashville, I think. I had it feitenized and put a lollar high wind imperial in it. Zero issues, stable, leave it out year round. I've only played a few others from the 90's, no older models, campellones or other customs to compare, so I can't give you an opinion based on lots of comparisons. I'm sure there are many wonderful equivalent models to try. I've not played enough high end guitars to say that I've ever fallen in love at first touch, I've had to work with each guitar I've ever owned to get what I want (or discover what I want!) but that's part of the journey.

What a great experience it must be, to be able to sit down and play several comparable high end arch tops and immediately find the perfect guitar! Meeting my wife was like that, but no new guitar ever did that for me.

**Patrick2** · 07-13-2014, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

is it your opinion that the only thing i said that made any sense at all was... or is that the gospel according to st jobe? my first sentence is a question dude.

(in my opinion) you can get mint second hand campys for 3500 - as new. (in my opinion) mark's guitars do vary of course - but not like factory guitars do. that's one of the things that makes them so hard to resist if you can't try lots of appropriate jazz guitars.

i used a jim hall sadowsky for over a year on the bandstand. best gigging guitar ever - but i still got rid of it because there's more to a guitar than being good on a gig. the hand carved floater guitars may not work quite as well on gigs in some ways (they're hopeless if you need to play loud) - but they more than amply compensate by being so responsive and musically satisfying.

blind (or deaf) - and with no financial issues - i would go for a campellone over an L5. i think they're much more reliable - and i think that a typical campellone is probably a slightly better musical instrument than the best L5 (say L5c vs campy 17'' with floater). best place i know to hear the differences between these instruments is the nice series of vids Keith Murch has made on youtube. look up keith murch on youtube and you'll find some very interesting comparisons. He's got a 50's L5, a 2006 L5 and two campellones - and he plays very nicely so you can hear the instruments well.

First off . . I'm not a dude. Next, your first sentence was not a question at all. It was a statement of assumed fact . . followed by . . "is there?" . . which is then a question or a request for affirmation that the preceding statement was correct. It should have been two seperate sentences . . "And there is not such thing as an "L5". "Is there?" . . . which is how I read it to be.

Your entire first post was based upon an opinion . . your opinion. That's cool. But, you stated it as a matter of fact and not as an opinion. As much as you and I like Mark Campellone's guitars . . and Mark himself . . there are probably some people out there who think his guitars are second rate and that Mark's an a**-hole. There are others who think that Gibson L5 guitars blow Mark's best offering away. All of those thoughts are merely opinion . . and each person is entitled to his/her own opinion. But, they're not entitled to state opinon as fact. Especially when there is a relatively new forum member looking for guidance on the matter.

I'm glad you think so highly of Mark and his guitars. They're each worthy of praise.

I'll have to check out Keith Murch's videos. I love to here Mark's guitars in action. Thanks for the referral.

**rpguitar** · 07-13-2014, 01:28 PM

I have a 1999 L-5CES. I also have a '75 L-5C, '47 L-5, and '28 L-5. These are all very different individual guitars from disparate periods in Gibson's history.

$5500 is a decent deal for a burst CES, but it's $2k more than the LS-17, and not very rare as a "deal," so to speak. You'll find others at that price or even lower if you hunt patiently. So it's not really a "jump now" situation IMHO.

I think the discussion has run its course (not that I will have the final word; fat chance!). But it boils down to the individual guitar you're considering. Is it theoretically worth the price? Yes. You won't lose a dime upon resale, if necessary. So go play it and make a decision based on the instrument itself.

**Phiberopttic** · 07-13-2014, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

I have a 1999 L-5CES. I also have a '75 L-5C, '47 L-5, and '28 L-5. These are all very different individual guitars from disparate periods in Gibson's history.

$5500 is a decent deal for a burst CES, but it's $2k more than the LS-17, and not very rare as a "deal," so to speak. You'll find others at that price or even lower if you hunt patiently. So it's not really a "jump now" situation IMHO.

I think the discussion has run its course (not that I will have the final word; fat chance!). But it boils down to the individual guitar you're considering. Is it theoretically worth the price? Yes. You won't lose a dime upon resale, if necessary. So go play it and make a decision based on the instrument itself.

Right on. I'm not in a hurry to get a new guitar, but I havent seen many other solid wood guitars in that price range, so I thought it would be a good idea to learn a little more about it. Its not a guitar-hero thing for me and I certainly dont "need a Gibson L5". I was curious what others were saying about L5s from the late 1990s and if there were other 17" carved archtops that were similarly priced; $5k to $6k. Just doing a little research before going to play the guitar.

**floatingpickup** · 07-13-2014, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

is it your opinion that the only thing i said that made any sense at all was... or is that the gospel according to st jobe? my first sentence is a question dude.

(in my opinion) you can get mint second hand campys for 3500 - as new. (in my opinion) mark's guitars do vary of course - but not like factory guitars do. that's one of the things that makes them so hard to resist if you can't try lots of appropriate jazz guitars.

i used a jim hall sadowsky for over a year on the bandstand. best gigging guitar ever - but i still got rid of it because there's more to a guitar than being good on a gig. the hand carved floater guitars may not work quite as well on gigs in some ways (they're hopeless if you need to play loud) - but they more than amply compensate by being so responsive and musically satisfying.

blind (or deaf) - and with no financial issues - i would go for a campellone over an L5. i think they're much more reliable - and i think that a typical campellone is probably a slightly better musical instrument than the best L5 (say L5c vs campy 17'' with floater). best place i know to hear the differences between these instruments is the nice series of vids Keith Murch has made on youtube. look up keith murch on youtube and you'll find some very interesting comparisons. He's got a 50's L5, a 2006 L5 and two campellones - and he plays very nicely so you can hear the instruments well.

Groyniad:
Thank you for the compliment.
Keith Murch, a.k.a. floatingpickup

**2bornot2bop** · 07-14-2014, 03:24 PM

An L5, or L5CES, at a good buy? What the heck is there to THINK about!? Buy it already!

**Patrick2** · 07-14-2014, 04:20 PM

@2b . . . Actually Greg, I think the OP was wise in posing the question to the forum members. He was concerned that he might be looking to spend money on what he may have been incorrectly assuming might be a necessity to achive his goal. There was a bit of a spirited debate over the matter . . . but, the concensus seemed to be pretty unanimous. Buying an L5, L5C, L5Wes or an L5CES . . is far more of an indulgence than it is a necessity. He now understands he can get where he wants to be, musically and tonally with many guitars other than a Gibson L5.

The OP just isn't one of those us who simply must own and play a Gibson L5 guitar. (yet! lolol)

I'm thining when he does get a chance to sample a few . . he just might change his mind. ;-)

**2bornot2bop** · 07-14-2014, 04:29 PM

I know. 2b simply has this thing about forum archtop discussions w/o a single pic!

2b's late to the party...was in Rio for the weekend!

**MarkRhodes** · 07-14-2014, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

Remember you're what give a guitar its unique voice.

To reinforce this point, there's a great story about Barney Kessel. He came off the bandstand after a set and a fan was raving about how great his guitar sounded. Barney looked at the guitar in a stand on the stage, then looked at the guy and said, "How does it sound now?"

**2bornot2bop** · 07-14-2014, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Phiberopttic

The guitar I'm looking at is a L5-CES, 1997, $5500, made in Boseman MT; according to a Gibson serial number search. I know little to nothing about Gibsons, other than my experiences with my ES175 and LP Custom. I've been trying to find information and/or user stories on L5s from 1997, but havent found much. It was other discussions/reviews that lead me to this forum.

If it's this '97 CES listed for $5500...

https://boulder.craigslist.org/msg/4530286451.html

I spoke to the seller over a week ago...asked for more revealing pics other than the distant dealer photos presented. Seller accommodated pics...

but we reached a snag over the original case not being sold with the guitar. upon pressing the seller why the guitar didn't have its original brown late 90's case, the seller acknowledged he owns a pair of L5's, and he's keeping the '97 case because it's in much better condition than the late model case....so I passed. that CES has a few nicks, but nothing I couldn't live with.

**Bluedawg** · 07-14-2014, 05:12 PM

After many years of dreaming, I finally broke down and bought an L5CES in 2010 or there abouts .... then the next year I sold a couple of other guitars and picked up an L5WES .... now I'm drooling over a new L5 Premier at my local Tucson store, but I'll probably have to pass on that unless I can sell a few of my solid bodies to cover the cost

I love them .....

but then I've been a Gibson fanboy since I learned my first cowboy chords on my dad's old low end '50s Gibson acoustic and drooled at pictures of my guitar heroes sporting Gibbies .... from Jimmy Page to Wes Montgomery to Pat Metheny to Steve Howe and more

That said ....

If I had been able to mess around with a Campellone and a few other small builders before buying .... I might have ended up with one of them ..

There are some tempting Campellones for sale on the internets ... much cheaper than the L5P that I'm drooling over ... Hmmmm