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hello good people
this is my first post on here, but thanks a lot to this whole community for all the info and wisdom. many a google search brings me right here and answers my burning guitar questions. always much appreciated, albeit silently up until now !
so i've stumbled across what the seller THOUGHT was an original Gibson super 300. but theres no way. its obviously been completely restored at some point and a couple vintage guitar dealers in NY who i called thought the body was most likely to be a stromberg, if not a really good copy of a stromberg. it's 18' wide at the bottom and looks like it has one single cross bracing across the inside of the top instead of an X or whatever, which is apparently characteristic of Stromberg builds post WWII.
The Gibson neck? definitely real but dono if its a super300. it has a relatively slim profile and it looks like someone could have even sawed off the carat (birds beak) to move the humbucker thing they installed closer to the bridge like Wes montgomery. perhaps a modified L5 neck or some rare super 300 with block inlays that aren't split, and the inlays going all the way to like 21..?
plays AMAZING put flats on it they're letting me borrow if for a weekend. HUGE sound and feels great. some of the restoration was a little rough aesthetically if you look close.
i LOVE this guitar but will be selling other cool guitars in order to accomodate this financially. will there be any resale value here?
Thanks for any advice i could totally post more pics . really dont know whether to buy it cause i love it or hold out for something that i could sell if i really needed to.
Last edited by krontokes; 02-10-2015 at 09:31 PM.
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06-28-2014 10:50 PM
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Welcome...
Too many weird things going on here, but I think your friend is right about the near certainty that you won't be able to re-sell this.
I have no idea why anyone would suggest it is related to a Super 300. The inlays are wrong (should be parallelograms), and the tailpiece has the wrong cutouts. The burst is not a Gibson style for any period other than perhaps the late 1970s (way too dark at the edges, and then a very rapid pass through red into yellow). The truss rod cover also seems to be not quite the right shape. The pointy fingerboard end is not gone - it was never there. An L-5 has 20 frets, and the point is where the 21st would be. This guitar has 22 frets and an extra bit.
I'm not too Stromberg savvy, but if you look carefully at tailpieces on the internet, they don't match this one.
Is there a label or any markings at all? A few more photos would help. But gut says "pass."
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no label or markings, no. things is i did find a few pics of Super 300s with the solid block inlays
http://www.rumbleseatmusicsouthwest....er300SB188.jpg
but they dont go that far up and they are wider. it matches the body dimensions and color of some super 400 bodies i found, but i think it's probably been completely repainted at some point. the tailpiece is a total mystery later addition.
is there any other indicators to look for? looks like a serial was gently carved off the back of the headstock at some point , hard to be sure though. could have been stolen.
just uploading some more pics
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The inlays on the Rumble Seat guitar are like a 1930s L-5, but would not have been original on that Super 300 unless it was a custom order (always possible with Gibson). And there are only 20 frets on that neck, unlike the one on the guitar you're looking at. Other than the number of frets, the neck could be from a Super 300 judging by the big headstock, but if so, it's probably got a replaced fingerboard at the very least. And a rubbed out serial number is always a negative thing.
Even if you can somehow piece together an explanation, it will never seem kosher to a potential buyer... especially in a marketplace full of options.
Then again, if you love the guitar and don't care about resale, negotiate a better price and grab it.
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Last edited by krontokes; 06-29-2014 at 01:50 AM. Reason: duplicate pics, sry
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the thing that gets me are the bound F holes on the one I've got. Haven't seen a super 300 with bound f-holes yet anywhere and it seems unlikely someone would go and do that after...
the body looks way more like a super 400. or someone doing a really really good imitation of one. its most likely been repainted. thing is i haven't seen ANY 400's with a crown headstock. hmmm. thx 4 the replies!
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That's a nice guitar... just NOT a Gibson.
HTH,
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What strikes me most is this:
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An obviously custom-made 18" non-cutaway archtop?
A few years old but with no top or back cracks?
Real Les Paul Custom/SG Custom/ES-355 or similar fingerboard on some kind of non-Gibson neck with real Gibson headstock overlay?
(if it was a Gibson neck, it would have either one or two thin dark strips of contrasting wood visible on the back of the neck)
Plays well, with good sound and feel?
DEFINITELY don't buy it.
Because I want to buy it. Or buy it and them sell it to me. Because I want it, despite the fact that it's not a Gibson Super 300, 400, Stromberg, Stratocaster or Sho-bud.
I see you are in Victoria. I've been there - it's a nice place to catch a glimpse of the forest as well as the trees. Check your PM.Last edited by Hammertone; 07-16-2014 at 09:21 AM.
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the only thing Gibson about it is the overlay.
I've seen some sloppy work from Gibson, but look @ the moustache @ the top of the headstock
the peak on the left is carved much higher and made the center dip asymmetrical. the peghead binding is not Gibson either
the body and it's binding really does look like a Stromberg though and that single top brace, never see that anywhere else.
the neck shape and heel are not the least bit Gibson and as Hammer points out, no lam.
interesting tailpiece that looks sorta Super 4-Stromberg-ES-250-ish but definitely none of those. cool though.
in the end, as RP points out "if you love the guitar and don't care about resale, negotiate a better price and grab it."
bottom line.....
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Order a non cutaway Super 400 instead. I know, pricey. Just keep it for 20-30 years.
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The neck is not from Gibson.
Headstock overlays and fingerboards were and are widely available - many spares have been sold over the years - I have a few myself (ncluding a few NOS replacement L-5 fingerboards, if any of you need one).
It is what it is.Last edited by Hammertone; 06-29-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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Never ever trust a man with his name emblazoned on his waistband, Calvin Klein.
Originally Posted by fws6
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Forget about the guitar and buy that MPC 2000xl instead.
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haha the mpc is mine. might sell it to buy guitars .
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My Super 300(1948) does not look anything like that cool guitar. Headstock looks ok. Fretboard should be double parallelogram. Non bound f holes, wrong truss rod cover. Body shape is pre1940 Super 400 (kind of) and the tailpiece is really cool, but not the brushed steel Super 300(or gold Super 400) style used. Regardless of all these things if you like this guitar it is a one of a kind looks great and I would buy it and try to talk the owner down a bit due to the fact that it is not a Gibson Super 300. I am in Seattle so hello neighbor to the north!
Best of Luck and health to you!
B
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Hey BopT, that makes 2 of us Super 300-ers. (Don't try saying it.) Mine is a circa 1954 SN A173xx, a few guitars after the one with L5 block inlays. Only 16 delivered that year. The early ones like your 1948 have particularly nice blistered maple backs and rims.
Stupidly, I asked for a Super 400CES black case from 2007 instead of the original 1954 brown interior case because it was old and offered no protection as there was no padding. Later on, I found out that old original cases are desired by collectors. But I am not a collector. Just wanted a case that works. Oh well.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 07-15-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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Shocking isn't it. Some buyers want every original part that is issued with the guitar. I would think you of all people here would know that Rene. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I was very concerned about the Super 300 surviving the delivery so I had to make a quick decision: Keep the original or accept a newer better padded one? The latter won. And the seller did not adjust the price. I couldn't countenance the thought of the Super 300 arriving damaged for want of a better case. Anyway, the vintage case would not have lasted in my environment. Old cases sound all romantic but they are not safe to use. And I don't have the space to store and preserve them.
There are case collectors....
Live a little. Learn a little.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 07-15-2014 at 05:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by fws6
Not the Chas'n'Di picture on the wall?
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There's a municipal regulation in Victoria, BC that requires at least one photo of British royalty in every room of one's residence. Only in Canada! Originally Posted by mangotango
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lived in england for a while got brainwashed what can i say
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Hooray for krontokes!
This guitar has since moved to Toronto, where it is being played quite regularly.
1 11/16" nut, classic late '50s-sized neck (it just SEEMS small surrounded by that headstock and that body), 24 3/4" scale, 18" body, 3" rims, set up with flats - it's a fat, greasy, groovy love machine.
Fabulous guitar, and I'm still trying to figure out who built it.
It even has the Uli and Micky seal of approval!
Teatime!
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