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Hi all, I'm looking at saving my dollars for a while to invest in a well made, great sounding guitar that will last me until the cows come home. I have recently started playing funk and jazz and currently I am using a mid 60s Fender Mustang with some lipstick pickups. It has a great tone and I can get some very Nile Rogers funk tones out of it but I need something that'll give me more. I would like to make a solid investment in something that'll give me everything I need, flexibility is next to ability. My budget can extend to around $3000 AUD. I like the tone of curtis mayfield, george benson, wes montgomery etc. I would like something that is warm like a traditional jazz box but has a bit of poke and bite to give me some better funk tones.
I've looked at Eastman's, Gretsch's and Hagstrom's. I particularly love the style of a Country Gent, although I know how twangy they can be. I would prefer a full hollow body electric to a semi hollow if possible and I'm not really into archtops. Please don't suggest a 335, that's just a little too cliche for me (no offense intended). I play a 50th anniversary Vox AC30, it gives me some amazingly rich tones.
Many thanks in advance.
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06-09-2014 06:14 AM
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THat's a nice budget, but kind of a challenging set of requirements/constraints.
Make it easy: a tele-style with a humbucker or P-90 in the neck.
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I'm dead set on getting a hollow body. The pedigree and aesthetic of a guitar greatly change the way I approach an instrument and that's important to me.
Is there any way I can narrow the choices down for you?
I really like the Chet Atkins 1962 country gent and I really like the Eastman T146. I understand these are worlds apart, but what are the pros and cons of either for jazz/funk?Last edited by zowno; 06-09-2014 at 08:15 AM.
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Gibson ES 330.
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Cheeky.
Originally Posted by mongrel
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Claydes Charles Smith played a big hollowbody in the early days of Kool and the Gang, I believe.
A Heritage H-550 could be a cool choice.
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I guess the issue is that you want a fat mellow sound for jazz and a bright, thinner sound for funk which is almost mutually exclusive.
I have experiemented with these things a fair bit - if you get a two humbucker guitar the neck will give you a nice jazz tone and when you make the humbucker splittable and put an out of phase wiring in the middle position it will give you a nice, bright funk sound. What hollow body floats your boat is another story of course - fully hollow guitars that are not your standard Jazz Archtop are somewhat scarce. Gibson 330s, Gibson Johnny A, some Heritages ... If at some point you reconsider semi-hollows - since you have excluded a 335 as a platform maybe a slight modification of a Höfner Verythin would do. These are great guitars and well within your budget on the used market.
The Gretsch Chet Atkins is an all around awesome guitar and it would also get you what you want IMHO.
Good luck!
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I recently got a Peerless Sunset which I love - thin body, great quality, mellow sound. Only problem is it's well below your price range... :-/
Another offering is the Godin Premiere - thinline, has an arched center block but IMO captures a full hollow sound without feedback. The version with the Bigsby is listed at $1700.
Both very versatile guitars that could handle jazz, funk, etc.
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Well IMO you have 3 choices.
1. Semi Hollow. Get the Yamaha SA2100 (spruce top) or Hofner John Stowell Very thin, HR Fusion III, or Epiphone Elitist Chet Atkins Country Gent.
I chose these because they mostly have spruce tops, centre blocks, or are light with more resonance, than the average 335 type. This obviously helps more with the Jazzy side your looking for.
I had an Epiphone Elite Chet Atkin and can say only the best things about them. Truly an all round guitar, and stunning to look at. They have thin tops with a very delicate response.
2. Slim line Hollow Body:
Great choice and my fav would be a guild SFIII SFII. You could also use a Gibson es350T (early or modern depending on your scale length choice).
The Guild SF II & III have very thin tops and are actually very light. Much like the Chet they have a very delicate touch and response but do 'jazz' much more convincingly. They resonate very well for a slim line. I have not found another Slimline model that performs so well at both disciplines.
The Gibson £350T is also fantastic but out of your price range (I think for Australia).
3. Full hollow with stop piece. Heritage 550
Never played one but if logic follows on, this should tick all the boxes.I don't like stop tailpieces. For me its the one thing that kills a good jazz guitar IMO but this will sound the most jazzy whilst being able to dig in. They seem really good value too.
Of course there are many other choices but narrowing it down, those are my main ones.
You could also go full hollow but you already know that Gretsch would be a good choice.
The secret weapon though is the Guild X-700. Used by Rocker-billy players because they have great clear treble tone. Probably the best of both worlds because that also do jazz perfectly.Last edited by GoergeBenson; 06-09-2014 at 11:39 AM.
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How about an Epiphone Casino? Hollowbody.
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He didn't seem to like my suggestion of an ES 330 so I doubt that the Casino will fly although in the right hands would be perfectly serviceable. Originally Posted by taxman
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Leo Nocentelli from the Meters played a ES-175, laying down some nasty, heavy grooves in the 60's makes the hair on the back of your neck stand straight up
Listen to this Cissy Strut - Es-175
Scofield same tune on semi, cool contrast
But Leo's been playing a 335 for years now
Leo's new signature ES335 "Bourbon Street" guitar
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George Benson, you have given me a lot to think about. Many considerations.
Also, I'm not ruling out gibsons, but they are usually overpriced and overplayed IMHO.
How does the rest of the heritage line stack up? They are some amazing looking instruments, although I'm not sure how easy they would be to get to Australia.
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Leo N's funkiest years were when he played a Fender Starfire...semi acoustic. He sounded incredible on that guitar. For my money, The Swampers, at Fame Studios in Muscle Shoals played on the funkiest stuff of all-time that didn't come out of Stax in Memphis. The main guitar you hear on all those records, I.e., Mustang Sally, is a single-cut Gretsch CA 6120.
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I'm pretty happy with one of these:
Epiphone 50th Ann. "1962" Sorrento
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i'd (lamentably, for you) recommend a 335 type and a compressor. i like the mini humbucker idea more for funk than jazz. i like the full humbucker idea more for jazz than funk.
something idiosyncratic that hasn't yet been mentioned: the new gretsch panthers and single cut, center block falcons. and a gent, 6118/6120 could work, but you may have to swap out a couple of things to maximize it for your wants.
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Heritage will build you a hollow body to your specs, as long as it fits into their basic designs. You can option it up with darn near anything you want, within reason. I had them build a full hollow H525 with P90's (they'll do humbuckers too), and it will funk with the best of them. See below:
Also, the H550 blonde photo above is a great option.
Other considerations, not yet mentioned are that these recommendations are laminate guitars, not solid wood, so they resist most feedback, until volume is increased.
Finally, the Australian exchange rate is not favorable, compared to US dollar prices, so your $3,000 top end might only get you a $2,500 build. For that reason, shopping on the used market might be a wise move for you. Shop around locally and I bet you'll find something that tickles your funky fancy. Good hunting.
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Out of phase humbuckers will give you funk, warmth, and twang.
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Originally Posted by Greentone
I just watched the doco on Muscle Shoals and that's what got me looking for gretschs.
I really really appreciate all the help guys, you've given me a lot to consider. Thank you
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Originally Posted by feet
If I do go for a gretsch (looking likely at the moment) what would you suggest swapping out? I was thing maybe switching the pickups to the bladed tv jones pickups
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Personally I would go with Guild over Gretsch. Just nicer guitars IMO. Nicer necks, nicer feel, more substantial. Gretsch is in your ball park but you have to enjoy playing one. They are a beast of their own. Originally Posted by zowno
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If you have your heart set on a Gretsch, you might want to check out Prince. One of his many guitarists (sorry, can't recall his name) played a very cool, big, red Gretsch. I couldn't tell if it was semi-hollow or full hollow, but he made that thing sound as funky as, well...Prince!
Bottom line, go for whatever guitar floats your boat. I've played RnB funk since the late 60's on everything from cheap Harmony Stratotones to Les Pauls, Strats, and full hollow archtops. It's not so much the instrument, but the instrumentalist that makes the sound. Make it funky!
Go on and make it YOUR sound. And let us know what you decide to purchase.
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i do like the supertrons (the blade tj jones pickups) very much. i have them in a g6118t and they are very capable for darker "jazz" while still providing a more "traditional" gretsch sound, as it were. but there are many tv jones offerings to choose from and many could work. its personal preference, which is what i'm getting at.
gretsch makes a great guitar (at least the post fender mij ones). nothing needs to be swapped out. but for my tastes and standards, they do. they are a great platform and can be modded many ways. at a minimum, i'd recommend tossing the space control bridge for tru-arc (or compton, on a budget) bridge in the alloy of your choice. do that first. then reevaluate. the bridge change is pretty dramatic, on par with a pickup swap. once you reacquaint yourself with the guitar, you can decide if and what you want to do with the pups. i'd also consider a cap and possibly a pot swap. cap value so you can have your preferred "instant jazz" sound on the tone switch, and nice pots because the volume knobs become defacto tone knobs, for fine tuning.
and having put a little thought into it, i'm think that maybe a pro/duo/whatever jet could work for this, too.
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All I can say is the ES 335 has been the king of versatile for a long time. Funk to jazz to blues to rock.
And if you can't afford a used Gibson, maybe an Ibanez Artcore/Artstar or the Heritage version as mentioned before.
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The Swampers funked it up, but my money goes back to Memphis, Hi Rhythm Section, Teenie Hodges on guitar. Originally Posted by Greentone
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