-
I'm thinking about joining our community band that is about the same size as Danny W's Swing Kings. What amp are people using in that type of band and what settings are typical? I'd be playing an L-5 CES.
Thanks
-
04-11-2014 10:50 AM
-
Just me, but if I wanted big band tones exclusively, I'd look into the Texotica line. Handwired and extremely fair-priced.
I'm sure alot of amps would work just fine tho. Personally, I wouldn't go for a blackface, I find them too bassy with hollowbodies, but again- that's just me. I'd be looking for midrange. And then choose wattage based on how much breakup you do/don't want. (traditional big band = little to no breakup, jump blues = some breakup, modern Setzer-type swing = quite a bit of breakup)Last edited by ruger9; 04-11-2014 at 11:50 AM.
-
Anything that stays pretty clean and projects well without you having to crank the volume will work.
I get my best big band results from a ZT Lunchbox powering a RE 10" cabinet. Total cost: under $700. The closed back cab projects very well out to the band without me having to play too loud, and then I face the ZT Lunchbox towards the drummer so he can hear me.
-
I use a Twin Reverb RI when I play with a big band. Can't beat it! Of course, you have to be aware of your volume & not overwhelm the rest of the rhythm section. It's heavy, but there is only a short distance from my car to where I set up generally. We play the same venue every week with occasional other gigs. If it's a venue where I can get mic'd I'll typically bring my Deluxe Reverb RI. Both work well, but the Twin has much more clean headroom.
-
What do you say about reply #2?
Originally Posted by Mark M.
-
About the Lunchbox? I have never tried one. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
-
Sorry, Reply #2 was this: Originally Posted by Mark M.
I'm sure alot of amps would work just fine tho. Personally, I wouldn't go for a blackface, I find them too bassy with hollowbodies, but again- that's just me. I'd be looking for midrange.
-
I have it on good authority that Danny W. does all his work with the Swing Kings on L-5CES guitars through an Acoustic Image Corus or sometimes an AI Ten2. He prefers these amps because of several factors: very small and light; despite that, very powerful--even the tiny Corus has enough volume for most big band gigs that don't require the band to be miced; can easily drive an extension cabinet for more volume; controlled dispersion reduces feedback; handy notch/hipass filter helps reduce it even more if necessary; both channels can take a mic or an instrument; sounds great with carved-top guitars; extremely reliable; outstanding customer service if they ever turn out to be not perfect. Originally Posted by oldwoodak
The main negatives are that they don't add anything to the sound, which means that they aren't great for solids or most semis without having some type of box between the guitar and the amp, and that they are quite unhappy with poor grounding. Danny W. had a problem with this just last week doing a big stage show, where the amp was humming and hissing away as soon as the guitar volume was turned up. Since he has played at this venue before without problem, he grabbed a tech and had him run a cable from a difference set of outlets and the problem was gone; however, the bass player's GK had no problem with the bad outlet. This sensitivity is due to the class D power amp and switching power supply needing cleaner power than conventional SS amps. Having used AI amps for twelve years, Danny has had this problem maybe a handful of times, and switching outlets or venue-supplied power cords has always cured it, and perhaps saved him from being electrocuted.
BTW, the Swing Kings have what might be considered a "classic" big-band lineup of 17 pieces--5 reeds, 4 bones, 4 trumpets and 4 rhythm (plus a singer.) They occasionally have an extra trumpet or bone.
From last month (you can see Danny W. when the tenor is soloing):
Danny W.
-
Just to clarify on my comment about blackfaces being too bassy with hollowbodies: that is my experience, based on a PRRI, a Supersonic 22 (the clean channel is very much like the DRRI), a full-hollow Epiphone Broadway with P90s, and a Grestch Hot Rod with Filtertrons. I ALWAYS ran/run the bass as ZERO. I much prefer the burn channel of my SS22, because I can actually use the bass control... of course, as I said, I'm going for some breakup, just a little, and the SS22 burn channel does this remarkably well.
Plus, when I hear "big band", I think traditional big band: Freddie Green, neck pickup, 4-on-the-floor most of the time... this sound was ALL ABOUT MIDS... not much bass or treble on those tones.
But again, that's just me. There's ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat.
-
I've played with a big band with a Peavey Bandit (Redstripe version). That's a solid state, 80W, 112 combo. I wasn't playing in huge places, the band had the full 5 (sometimes 4) saxes, 4 or 5 trumpets, and 1 or 2 trombones. The drummer was way too loud. I never had to put the bandit past 6/10 on the volume knob (that's about 1 or 2 o'clock) and when playing rhythm (about 95% of the time) I had my guitar volume knob pretty far from max. I adjust it to taste, but I'm guessing never past 7/10, maybe as low as 5/10 on small venues. I usually put that on max to play a solo. It cuts right through the horns' background arrangements. It had a full sound.
I also played once with a 50W 2x6L6 push pull tube amp, with a SS rectifier (kind of like a Bassman head) bargain pawn shop amp from a local manufacturer, made in 1974. It was also power enough, the sound wasn't as full, because I was using a very bad cab and speaker.
If your concern is volume, what I said might be useful, if you're talking about tone, then I guess I can't really help much.
Of course I'm not a full pro, and I donn't think I'm good at judging tone or even playing guitar. It's just my hands on experience. I don't have experience playing lots of different amps or anything, so I'd take my comments with care.
-
Oh yes, and I also found useful to put the bass EQ knob on very low levels. I was also always wishing I had less sustain and more of an acoustic sound for rhythm, but well... I guess a nice acoustic and a directional quality microphone weren't available (I'd go that route if I could with a traditional big band)
-
I don't want to sound like a broken record as I know I've mentioned this before elsewhere on the forum, but the Raezer's Edge JG-10 is a really great cabinet for those who play in big bands - the cabinet is designed to project a brighter, more acoustic tone when it's placed in the vertical position, vs. more electric and tube-y when it's placed horizontally. The vertical position really nails it for big band tone, which is why I can get by powering it with something very modest like the ZT Lunchbox (regular, not acoustic). I don't even have EQ controls on my ZT (just "tone") - the cab just does all the work for me.
The speaker/cab play a major role in the sound, especially in a large space such as where big bands normally play.
-
Oh, sorry about the confusion. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
I don't find either amp to be too bassy. I use my L5CES and with the Twin typically have the bass about 4, mid about 5 & treble about 3 with a little reverb. It seems to cut through nicely. On a lot of the tunes I'm doing the Freddie Green comping, but not all the time. We play a lot of modern arrangements also & I get to mis it up a bit, especially behind soloists.
-
I haven't played in a big band (full horn section) since college, so take it with a grain of salt, but I imagine most 15+ watt tubes amps would do you the trick. I do second the idea of turning the bass down when using a BF Fender and an archtop. Besides, you wanna stay out of the bass players frequency range anyway.
With my current crop of amps (which does include a TRRI and a PRRI) I'd go with my new sweetheart, a Fender Excelsior Pro
Though I do say if I were to be playing rhythm in a big band I'd actually use my gypsy rig instead: JWC grande bouche long scale gypsy guitar loaded with Fishman Rare Earth humbucker acoustic pickup through a Baggs Para DI into a Phil Jones Briefcase bass amp -- passive/active switch to active, bass and treble slider cut all the way.
-
I sometimes use a cube amp and it sounds pretty good for big band.
-
Blackfaces do have scooped mids and can have trouble cutting through the mix. But in my experience (with my Gibson ES-333 with classic 57s) it's just a matter of turning the bass down a bit and turning the mids up. Mids are indeed very important to cut through the mix! I don't play in a big band, but I can imagine that cutting through the mix is even more important in that situation. I also have an MXR 10 band EQ that does a good job lifting the important frequencies and/or cutting bass.
-
I guess it depends on your situation but for me, the size of the amp I'm using is crucial. Does the band travel often? Are you in a situation where transporting a heavy amp is a huge burden?
I've owned some pretty high end small sized amps and I still swear by my Fender Blues Jr. NOS. The Jensen speaker makes the NOS model sound so much better than the standard black tolex model...which really doesn't sound too great in a jazz setting IMO.
The Two-Rock EXO 15 is a verrrrry warm sounding small amp & cab set.
I constantly hear great things about the Roland Cube amps too. A bass player in the jazz circuit around me always uses one on gigs when we're booked together and I'm always so impressed at how loud it is.
-
Thnks for the great replies. I just picked up an older Evans JE-200, so I'll be giving that a try. My other choices that I've played in combos Include a SFDR which I typically have the bass set on 3 or a '53 Gibson GA-30 or '62 Princeton. I'm hoping the Evans will do the trick and I'll learn to use my volume knob more. It's about 30 pounds. Anybody use a volume pedal in this situation?
-
Another vote for the Roland Cube amps. The JC channel is pretty reliable for jazz tones and the modeling settings provide a lot of variety for various situations. The acoustic setting can be very helpful if you want extremely clean. I have a Cube 60 which is remarkably versatile, the Cube 80 might be a good choice. You can often fine these on Craigslist for $250 or so (in the US anyway).
-
With an older JE200, I recommend using the Number 2 or Normal Input for big band. Try the Amp's Volume on 3-4 and Master set at 4-6.
You may have to adjust your guitar's volume and tone controls to taste. However, the JE200 does have enough responsiveness to make a volume pedal unnecessary for most applications. Simply use a light string attack for comping and dig in while soloing. Enjoy.
Reply With Quote
Looking for a artchtop
Today, 01:09 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos