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I have a dilemma with my 1998 Washburn J6. The sound is muddy (esp. on the wound strings) and the tone pot doesn't really change things much (and I suspect is faulty or perhaps just cheaply made in the first place). I like the feel and action of the guitar but don't know that it's really worth the money to put in a new pickup and change the pots. With luthier fees and parts I'm surely in for a few hundred to do that, on a guitar I paid $400 for (they seem to sell on eBay now for around $650 but those are usually the "Wes Montgomery" J6 model; I'm not sure of the differences)
Selling it won't bring much, but I also have another $400 guitar (Aslin Dane Jazz King), so if I sold them both, and got around $800, I could buy a Loar or a Godin or something along those lines that might be great right out of the box.
What do you think? Upgrade the Washburn and keep it, or sell it and start fresh?
Thanks.
p.s. FWIW, my other guitars are an Eastman 803CE and an Ibanez AF105NT, both of which I love, and a recent Epi Dot that's also very nice and easy to play and sounds good.
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03-03-2014 07:55 PM
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Why don't you try just upgrading the pots and wiring. That should be cheap enough and something that would help you sell it off quicker if your still turned off by it. The J6 doesn't give you anything you can't get from your other two guitars... Of course, if it has sentimental value, then just keep it and upgrade it.
Me? I have an Epi Joe Pass I feel the same way about. I have the wiring kit in a drawer but can't bring myself to upgrade it OR sell it either... It just sits there, in it's stand, staring at me disapprovingly when I pick up my other guitars to practice.
K
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I play a J6, and have noticed many of the issues you describe. The general muddiness, and that the tone pot has to be set to 0 to make a noticeable difference. Every other setting is just "bright". The electronics on these things just, frankly, suck. A lot of rattles and annoying little quirks.
That being said, having played around on a lot of other guitars, I don't think you're going to really notice a huge improvement over the Washburn unless you creep up into the $2K range. Part of the reason I settled on the J6 was that it was basically as good as anything under $2K for a good price, and had the vibe of my dream guitar (L5). It also has a better neck than most of the other budget arch tops, and the tone was, to my ears, better.
Your mileage may vary.
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Nosoy: thanks for your thoughts
ecj: Have you considered changing out your electronics? As for not doing better till $2K, I have to say my Eastman is much better (and I paid around $1100 for it) and so is my Ibanez (only paid $400!), so I have already done better than the J6 for comparable money. But I agree that it's nice to have a vague reminder of an L5 in the house; I just wish it sounded better!
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I have a J6. Early Korean model. It's a nice guitar but the pots and switch were very cheaply made and had to go. I didn't find they were ineffectual relative to rolling off treble or adjusting volume. They were just scratchy and rough. I replaced them with switchcraft and CTS which work just fine. The pickups weren't so bad and I'm still using the ones it came with. It's more resistant to feedback than my solid wood guitars while still providing an amplified hollow body sound. So, it serves that purpose. That and we all need a guitar that we're not so concerned with dinging when we go to something like an open jam.
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I began with several J6S WesMo models. Great guitars. But if it were me, knowing what I know about the Loar and the J6, I'd sell the pair of guitars, buy a used Loar LH650, commonly found for $700, and put money into it instead by upgrading the pup to a Bartolini 5J...Maybe $100...for $800 investment you'd really have something....real spruce and nitro too.
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2b, that Loar is sooo tempting, especially in natural! But all the LH-650's I see on eBay are selling around $1100 and up, and all are sunburst rather than natural. Maybe I'd just have to wait and be patient until my chance comes along. Thanks for your thoughts. BTW, do all 650's have floaters, or do any have set-in pups? I'm generally inclined toward the latter, as I grow weary of fighting the howling feedback on gigs...
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650's all have floaters, which is why this one was replaced. keep an eye on craigs nationally. 5 months ago a natural sold on feebay for less than $700 with an upgraded Benedetto pup. I'd not buy a new one...that window has long closed when they were available at giveaway prices. yep, floaters aren't for everyone...I don't gig, so FB is no problemo. Good luck.
Originally Posted by jasaco
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I've thought about it. Originally Posted by jasaco
Wasn't hugely impressed with the Eastmans, myself. I really like the sound of routed pups, and the Eastmans all felt very "acoustic" to me.
The Ibanez models are nice. Just wish they made a 17"er. 16" and below feels awkwardly small to me.
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My Eastman 803CE does have a routed pup. But it still does sound more acoustic when playing through an amp than my other guitars. I think at least part of that is because it is so lively and delivers so much sound unamplified that, when playing electrically, the player is still hearing a mix of the amped and the acoustic sound. I'm not sure how it would sound further away out in the audience at a gig. Now that I mention it, I should record it to find out... Originally Posted by ecj
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I bought one in 2004, got it brand new from Music123 I think for $800, maybe less. I changed the pots on my J6 Montgomery after about a year using it, the stock ones were crap and I tried to bear them as much as I can as it's not easy to do them myself.
Another 3 months after, I bought Gibson P94 pups to upgrade, which changed the sound a cotilion (one billion gazillion) times better. The new and improved sound renewed my enthusiasm to practice, and gig...until that crappy W tailpiece cracked in the next few months. Ordered for a Kluson trapeze from StewMac, drilled a few holes and it's been in top shape ever since.
I don't gig much anymore after a bout with cancer in 2010 (but I just keep it in its case in a corner and feed it some sausages from time to time). For a while there I thought I'm done gigging so I even sold my Marshall Valvestate 65R (good clean jazz tone) and got a ZT Lunchbox Acoustic to entertain myself at home and keep my callouses thick.
Yesterday I bought a new Roland Cube 80GX, after a 6-hr debate with myself regarding the ZT Club...and practiced all day today mainly at over the top volumes for amp break-in which nearly killed my daughter's goldfish from the sonic punch. (They floated belly up for a while but I think they're fine now, still swimming like they had a fifth of gin.)
I'm not selling this guitar, I'm gigging again. Like many of us here jazz guitar players, we'll be on stage 'til age creeps up on us that we can't gig anymore.
In case you're wondering why the rosewood bridge is mounted down side up, I get better intonation that way. The metal saddle sounded thin so I looked around for a straight wooden bridge but there was none in Helsinki when I was there. Something's not right with those compensated saddles. Maybe I should get a new one, plain, without that offset...aaah, leave it there.Last edited by Sproox; 07-02-2014 at 06:15 AM.
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Never try to upgrade a guitar of no real value. it just makes it even less desirable and you end up still wanting to change. Its just money chasing money.
Sell both guitars but personally I'm still not convinced by Loar (although having never played one, I'm sure I will get told to shut up lol).
The loar is a 16" spruce so will sound really bright and crisp. You Washy is a 17 and will sound bassy and a little dull
What you want it something in between IMO so a laminate maple/spruce 16" would be a good choice, go for an ebony fretboard.
The new hofners are really nice and with good tone. The new ibanez range is excellent value and build quality LGB30
The Eastmen Es-175 copy.
Heck there is a lot of choice for you my friend, your living in the best generation for budget guitars.
Me id get a maple laminate top 16" with a ebony fretboard. Done! Clear tone from bass to treble, and good enough feedback resistance.
I would never get a Godin but would like to try a Loar
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I'd never tell anyone to "shut up." But it deserves to be said, guitars are in a way like used cars. Each is an individual, and as such to generalize about either doesn't accurately define them. Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
Try a LH650 for yourself and we'll talk. Hint, it's nothing like you described.
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Thanks for reviving this thread and contributing. I'm still interested in your thoughts, as I have not yet taken any action with respect to the Washburn. Having said that, I am thinking about a Comins GCS-1. But then I would have to sell something, which is harder for me to do than acquiring them...
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I wish i could get hold of one 2B. never seen one here in the UK. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
If I was looking for an L4c this would be the nearest choice and over the years, I'm sure it will give back in spades, as the top opens up.
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Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
Hmm.. don't agree with this at all. There are lots of really good inexpensive guitars out there. The 1998 Washburn J6 is one of them. Don't know about later models. Of course, the pots and switches are junk, but the wood working, neck, and other hardware are just fine. The pups sound like any other humbucker to me, but it's an easy swap if something different is being sought. Once that's taken care of this guitar will fill the job of electric archtop just fine.
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While searching google today I observed one for sale in the UK...it was ridiculously inexpensive too...green with envy over here. Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
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My 2nd archtop, after a 70's Gibson '175 w/ CC pickup, was an '89 Washburn J6S WesMo model, 1 of 9 produced in a red finish with flaming maple back and sides. The shading and poly were so well done you'd have thought it was nitro. Originally Posted by Spook410
I eventually pulled the stock pups, and replaced them for Seth Lover SH's....man ol' man did that humble guitar come alive...so much so its tone surpassed many more expensive archtop's I've owned since then. But when you have the disease, that's what happens...you give away some stars in search of something different, but not necessarily better.
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I think the last two comments are fair. Will changing the pickups make it better? Well thats a £150 question, which incidentally is half the price of a second hand one.
My point was not to bash the J6 but more to say, throwing money int a cheap archtop can and often is a waist of money when you come to re-sale because these guitars have a ceiling price, that they will rarely move up from. Wil it be worth an extra $350 dollars because of the pickup and pot change? I doubt it very much.
People then ask the question
Who did the mods?
Do I like the mods?
when selling a guitar, questions are never a good thing. It it were me, i would buy your guitar probably for around the same price as all the others, take the expensive pickup out (providing you sell it with original too) replace the original, sell the guitar at a $40 loss and get a cheap good pick-up :-))
That was the point of my first post more to comment on value/mods/budget guitars on re-sale
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C'mon man...we're talking about pickup upgrades? What's more common among guitarists than a pickup mod?
If a perspective "buyer" can't relate to that, he can take a hike!
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In all fairness to GeorgeBenson, the original post title asks wether to sell or upgrade, so his point is very relevant. I myself am wondering the same thing about my epiphone joe pass. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
C'mon man...we're talking about pickup upgrades? What's more common among guitarists than a pickup mod?
If a perspective "buyer" can't relate to that, he can take a hike!
K
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So.. you can't put a pickup in because you won't get your money back if and when you sell the guitar? What market tier are replacement pickups for? Seems to me this is exactly the sort of electric guitar you get for $400 then turn into a working instrument tailored to your preferences. If you don't care for the playability of the guitar or it's obviated by other instruments already in your possession, then changing components is moot. However, if you otherwise like the guitar and need one of that type, the fixes are quite easy and preferable to chasing something else.
When I'm looking for a return, I buy equities. I buy guitars to play and enjoy.Last edited by Spook410; 07-03-2014 at 01:27 PM.
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Well, I'm not arguing against either side. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, I have a wiring kit waiting for to go into my Epi Joe Pass. Since then I've also bought some ebony/rosewood knobs for the same guitar which I haven't put in either AND... I've had a set of golden age parson street humbuckers in my stewmac shopping cart for ages.
I empathise with the OP. It's the weird sensation I have that as soon as I'm done with the upgrades, and I have it just like I want it, that a chance for a nicer guitar will have me thinking of selling it... It's an embarrassing problem to have, really.
K
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I think that it's all relative y'know. And it's fun trying new things until something sticks! Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
I wanted a Charlie Christian pickup for a Korean hollow ply guitar, I considered buying one of those 100% recreations that end up in Slaiman guitars but I couldn't justify the price. I ended up with a Vintage Vibe humbucker sized CC pickup with the added bonus of being able to swap out the magnets, all for £50/$85/€63 delivered to my door in Scotland. That pickup was/is a revelation and has been put into 3 different 'cheap' guitars since purchase, I liked the pickup so much I eventually bought a guitar to put it in. It's in a Jazzed up Telecaster at the mo'.
You can always reverse electronic mods.
Besides if you dig the guitar why not swap pickups?!?
I wouldn't swap this Squier for a Fender, it's everything I need and it cannot be improved upon. And much fun was had in improving it too!
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Interesting. I don't usually upgrade a guitar that doesn't meet some specific need. The Washburn J6 I have is less prone to feedback than my solid wood Yunzhi's. It's also not going to tempt a thief playing out. Originally Posted by nosoyninja
OK.. so I don't play out in situations where a guitar goes unsupervised nor do I play at volumes where feedback is a problem. Yea.. so? It could happen. Or might.. or.. anyway, those crappy pots had to go.
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