Should More Brands offer Nitro Finishes?

[jazzbow]

Ah, yes, blushing or chilling as the old ones called it and, ironically, the young ones do! Cold damp days bring that on. We would make sure the lacquers were not used from cold storage. Wait for the room and paint to warm up.

Do you use viscosity cups or do you have the skill to judge by eye?

Yes, spraying lift cars with the doors closed does make for an interesting day. Of course not these days.

Here's one. Cellulose sanding sealer thinned with wood dye and sprayed onto ash. Leave to dry then sand it off with 360 grit. The grain stays the chosen colour but the bits between take on a lovely pastel hue. Nicer than tinting your actual lacquers.


Woof.

[PTChristopher2]

>>> sanding sealer thinned with wood dye and sprayed onto ash.

Sounds great.

Not to talk shop here on this apparently social forum, but man I have seen some troubles on guitars where the builder used a vinyl sealer first. I remember Behlen warning that the thickness ratio had to be significantly in favor of the lacquer over the sealer, but even that smells of an adhesion problem - so counting on the body of a heavy lacquer coat to hold things together when stressed.

I think counting on lacquer for any sort of strength is questionable at best.

I was looking at a low-volume builders great-looking guitars a little over a year ago and sure enough, the lacquer was coming off the vinyl sealer in places. I gingerly put the guitar back and stepped away slowly, so as not to shake the floor too much.

I have not used a sealer in a long time, and most seem to supply a vinyl sealer of some sort now. I just go with seal coats of lacquer and sand very smoothly before the color coats. Takes a bit longer I suppose.

Chris

[Gilpy]

I love the look, feel and sound of the finishes on my vintage Gibsons and Martins. On the other hand, I can't think of one time when I've been playing my Sadowsky or my Taylor and thought "gosh, what a nice guitar...too bad it doesn't have a nitro finish".
If I rejected guitars because of the type of finish I would have missed out on some great guitars.

[jazzbow]

>>> sanding sealer thinned with wood dye and sprayed onto ash.

Sounds great.

Not to talk shop here on this apparently social forum, but man I have seen some troubles on guitars where the builder used a vinyl sealer first. the lacquer was coming off the vinyl sealer in places.
Chris

http://www.hex.co.uk/tds/upol/barcoat.pdf

[3625]

Many excellent well informed posts there chaps - I'm a lot more knowledgeable about this now as a result, thanks.

So it's pretty safe to assume that many of the 'budget' Asian archtops out there are coated in thick, hard poly which inhibits the vibration of the guitar - bummer. Yet, they won't explode if you've got one on your lap and you're using your mobile phone - winner.

There was one thread on the Gretsch forum, where someone sanded back the poly a little on his Electromatic, resulting in a matte finish which looked pretty good. Do you think that sanding back a thick poly coat by a small amount (so as not to risk damaging the wood) - such as on the Sorrento - would help the instrument vibrate more freely, or would the difference be so negligible as to not warrant the effort (acoustically speaking)?

[PTChristopher2]

The trouble with sanding is when you hit the wood. If the wood sands more easily than the finish (VERY common on mahogany), then the low parts get lower while the high parts stay high - not a good situation.

I have a very good palm sander, a very good "random" orbital sander, and lots of feel for hand sanding. But I'd rather eat bugs or be on TGP for an hour than have to sand off a poly-anything guitar finish.

If you are a Gretch person, then ask Curt Wilson about all this. He got into full-time luthiating later in life, but definitely had the hand-to-eye-to-brain for this sort of thing - not just finishes.

>>> Do you think that sanding back a thick poly coat by a small amount (so as not to risk damaging the wood) - such as on the Sorrento - would help the instrument vibrate more freely, or would the difference be so negligible as to not warrant the effort (acoustically speaking)?

I think it would make no practical difference.

On the Sorrento, the body finish is actually pretty good. Not crazy thick. It does get a little heavy on the neck around the heel, and pretty thick on the neck in general. If you actually have this guitar, I would not expect a somewhat thinned finish to matter on the thinline maple ply body.

In my opinion.

Chris

[jazzbow]

There was one thread on the Gretsch forum, where someone sanded back the poly a little on his Electromatic, resulting in a matte finish which looked pretty good. Do you think that sanding back a thick poly coat by a small amount (so as not to risk damaging the wood) - such as on the Sorrento - would help the instrument vibrate more freely, or would the difference be so negligible as to not warrant the effort (acoustically speaking)?

Jazzbow does not advocate sanding poly finishes. Sanding finishes, thin finishes, thick finishes etc. would not amount to much difference in sound. The basic materials do make a difference, wood that is.