Do you like Joe Pass' playing and tone?

[jzucker]

This video clip illustrates one of my pet (OCD?) subjects: PU placement. Now, PU placement is certainly not the one and only thing affecting tone, but it does play a role.

Some of the worst Joe Pass tone I have heard (maybe apart from when he played his first ES175 acoustically like on the first Virtuoso record) was the tone he got from his Ibanez signature guitar. It had the one PU placed somewhere midways between where normal brigde and neck PUs would be placed. Rumours tells that Joe Pass didn't like that guitar very much himself but he was obliged to use it because of the endorsement deal.

On this clip he plays the custom ES175 he used late in his life. It had the PU placed closer to the neck than on a standard ES175 (like on an L4 or an L5), which IMHO contributes to the more sweet and spread sound we hear.

i'd love to know the details of that deal. Presumably he wanted something that "cut" better than a regular 175 but you'd think he'd have a prototype to approve. But ibanez has a history of messing up the early endorser guitars like pat metheny's guitar which he rarely even used until it was discontinued and re-made into something different. Even benson went through some duds. The first GB10 had only 21 frets.

[kris]

Joe Pass solos with exelent jazz time is easy to transcribe...so it is a perfect edu material for all jazz musicians and special for guitarists.
...
I like his sound on Ibanez signature guitar.
I am listenig now Joe Pass/Red Michell live CD "Finally"...duo sounds perfect.

[oldane]

i'd love to know the details of that deal. Presumably he wanted something that "cut" better than a regular 175 but you'd think he'd have a prototype to approve. But ibanez has a history of messing up the early endorser guitars like pat metheny's guitar which he rarely even used until it was discontinued and re-made into something different. Even benson went through some duds. The first GB10 had only 21 frets.

I don't know the details, just the circulating hearsay. Maybe Pass himself was a bit difficult to satisfy, and maybe he changed his mind about the guitar along the road, finding it didn't really work as he had hoped. Again, according to rumours, it was difficult for him to forget the first 175 with its fast neck, which he used till it almost fell apart. The story goes that he was not too pleased either with his D'Aquisto of which he found the neck too thick. However, Jimmy D'Aquisto thought it was just fine and refused Pass' request to shave it down, and that ended their relation. I have no idea if Pass grew accustomed the the neck shape or had another luthier shave it down. Anyway he didn't stop using the guitar. FWIT, all this is hearsay, not comfirmed facts.

[Bosko]

I would gladly pay to hear Joe play live on a Squier Strat with a Mustang 1 amp. Definitely one of my all time favorite guitarists.

[mr. beaumont]

looks and sounds like polytone. beautiful stuff. If you think this isn't gorgeous I'd wonder why you're playing jazz guitar.

megabrute, right? Sounds great...a good clean tone, some natural reverb.

Some of those 80's recordings were so dry...reverb can be overdone...but a little goes a long way.

[monkmiles]

He's one of my very favorite players but his tone is hit or miss for me. I'm a bigger fan of his group settings rather than solo settings. I do like his tone on that trio album Eximious myself.

[RWJax]

Love for Sale, Joe Pass and Herb Ellis, Album: Two for the Road

This album is why I began studying jazz guitar!

[ESCC]

I listen to Joe Pass very frequently, his technique never ceases to amaze me! He is probably the only jazz guitarist whose tone I don't pay attention to, to busy taking in his playing.

[targuit]

That clip of I Can't Get Started with those two late giants of jazz was fabulous! Best guitar/ bass collaboration I've heard. Last night I was playing through Virtuoso 4 - stunning technique with variable tone.

Jay

[fumblefingers]

Great great player. Tone varied but sounds fine on the OP

[SierraTango]

From another post: never did see an answer to the last question.

In the late 80's I was a staff mixer at Group IV studios in Hollywood. I was fortunate to meet and spend a bit of time with Joe. I mentioned I played and he passed his 175 over to me. He got involved in a conversation with another staff member while I fumbled around for a few minutes. He was gracious enough to say"...sounds good, keep working on it.." It's a moment I'll never ever forget, and I took his advice to heart. 20+ years later I'm still working on it..
A added bonus was he was working with Ella during those sessions and I had a chance to have a cup of coffee with her in the break room. What a thrill that was!
If you check the credits on many of Joe's recordings you will see Group IV listed as the studio. It always cracked me up that Joe would come in with guitar in a gig bag, patch cord and a Polytone. Much has been written positive and negitive regarding Joe's tone, however I can assure you that listening to him play though the Trident desk and "Big Red" monitors in the control room was a life changing experience. His friend and my boss Angel Ballister was usually the engineer, although Dennis Sands did some sessions with him also.
I always wondered where his D'Aquisto ended up-anyone know where that piece of history landed?

[Doctor Jeff]

Truism of the day: There is an infinite amount of interest and opinion about Joe Pass among jazz guitar aficionados.

That I Can't Get Started video is an awesome lovely sound, even though he's only playing about half the notes he usually does. Classy all the way around.

[Andrew B.]

I think he's a great guitarist and I feel fortunate to have seen him play live. Nice guy too. One place I saw him he said "hi" to me and my girlfriend as he was walking toward the outdoor stage. We didn't even know him.

What I liked was a lot of his musical choices. IOW, where he chose to take what he was playing. I was never crazy about his tone, but I got used to it. I thought of it as sort of a mix between electric and acoustic. In the tune posted here, I wish he was hitting the beat more. I don't expect precision, because that's cold-sounding. But he's giving me a feeling like he's in over his head playing at that speed.

[kris]

Joe Pass played few tunes on 12 strings guitar "Ira,George,and Joe" CD/1981/.
It is also interesting that he was great with pick and fingerstyle jazz.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I think it's cool that he wasn't hung up on tone. I just wish some of the recording engineers were.

[SierraTango]

In answer to ESCC, it was not a easy instrument to play. The strings were not new,as I recall they were flatwounds and I would call the action medium-low. This was about 1988-89, so that was some time ago. I do recall the song I was messing around with, it was "Love For Sale" in Bb and I thought I had a pretty good version worked up. When he got the guitar back from me he started playing that song and showed me that my version was pretty elementary..I did pick up a few moves just watching him and still use them.

BigDaddy, the sessions at Group IV that I was around for he used a Polytone. It was mic'd with a U87 close to the speaker, and then there were ambient U87's in the room, which was Studio A, a very large room. We used to do scoring for Film and TV in that room with Mike Post, shows like LA Law, etc. There was also a DI box involved between the 175 and Polytone. Group IV had a outstanding mic locker even by LA studio standards; Telefunken tube mics, RCA ribbon mic's, just about anything in the mic world. Desk in that studio was a Trident, and the 24 track was a Studer. So all the right stuff was there. I was involved in the Post Production side of the studio, so I plead the 5th. Everyone involved including Angel and Dennis were very experienced mixers and very engaged in the projects.

I recall George Horn doing the mastering and he was also very good.

[SierraTango]

Further to my above post: I truly feel that Joe was an artist who's transfers from analog to digital format didn't do him any favors. When I place one of my cherished recordings of him my turntable, a different tone emerges, one that has the warmth that many find lacking in the CD re-issues.

I do get the argument that his tone is thin, lacking depth, etc. However when I dig deeper I find that many folks expressing these objections are judging off of CD's that don't convey the way most of these stellar perfomances we captured originally.

[Chazmo]

I love the way Joe got a fat tone in the best sounding videos posted here but still had a bit of "snap" on the high strings. Great jazz tone does not mean rolling all the treble off.

That version of "I Can't Get Started" is superb!

[GuyBoden]

Yes, his tone on "For Django" is my fav too.

[B3l5tele]

The tone on For Django to me is the tone of jazz guitar because it was the first album I discovered and listened to all the way through when I first started exploring jazz guitar back in the mid 70's. It knocked me out. I once asked Mr. Pass about the Intercontinental Joe Pass album, my other favorite album of his. He said he liked the tone on that album and said it had something to do with "German engineering..."

[mikeSF]

...
I always wondered where his D'Aquisto ended up-anyone know where that piece of history landed?

yes, it is in the hands of a great player who is showing it proper respect. not trying to sound dodgy but I don't know if he wants that info published on the internet either. It is always good when these instruments do not spend the rest of their days under a bed or in a museum case...or worse, on a wall at the Hard Rock Café.

[jzucker]

if it's in the hands of someone showing the proper respect, I assume he's gigging and recording with it so why would he want it to be secret?

[Androo]

Another fan here. I don't care what time period, or on what guitar. I just love listening to his playing. I think the thinned out Virtuoso Albums sound great too. Just different.

This tone he's getting on the Herb Ellis Love For Sale which RWJax posted, is one of my favorite tones of his.

I less like (see I didn't say dislike the tone of the modified 175 he played towards the end (the one he used for the Roy Clark/Joe Pass album).

This one just makes me laugh when I watch it...

[mikeSF]

if it's in the hands of someone showing the proper respect, I assume he's gigging and recording with it so why would he want it to be secret?

I didn't say that.
For all I know it may be Google-able knowledge, but in case it isn't, I don't feel it is my place to post the owner's name on here.

[Petimar]

I love his playing most of the time. Love his sound on the live session with "Joy Spring"

There are some records I don't like the tone much, but I'm that way with most guitar players.