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a while back, i was in the market for a good first archtop. due to the recommendations here, i went with the popular eastman 371. a while later, i sold that guitar, and regretted it since. lately i found myself in the market for another jazz box, and for the first time ever was considering buying another of the same instrument i had already sold (because i can't even count how many instruments i sold and wish i kept over the years.) I decided to try something new mostly on principal alone. i found a Godin kingpin on my local CL- literally 10 minutes from my house- listed for $375. i negotiated via email down to $350. i went (earlier today) to his house and picked up the guitar. i think its fair to say anything under $500 or so is a deal on this guitar, so i'm happy.
since when i was shopping (both times) i was looking for a review of these two guitars side by side, since they were the two i was considering, i figured i should type this up incase some other lucky guitarist has to make this decision in the future.
first off, i'll answer the question of "of this instrument was lost or stolen..?" because my answer is relevant to this thread- if this guitar vanished, and i needed to buy another jazzbox, i wouldn't shop anywhere other than for another kingpin, or an eastman 371. both guitars are fantastic and a bargain even at full retail prices.
in terms of sound, they both sound really nice. really, really, nice. unfortunately the eastman has been gone for a while, so im relying on memory and a few recordings that were made while i had it. in terms of acoustic tone and volume, its a draw. the eastman had a tone that i found more pleasing, but less of it. the godin has a bit brighter and just slightly different tone - nonetheless a very nice tone- but more volume. the plugged in sound, i'd have to give the crown to the godin for a few reasons. it just has a certain articulate and clear sound, yet with such warmth, and a certain punchyness, especially when picking over the pickup. the other major reason this wins for better plugged in sound is the tone knob is so much more useful. the tone knob on the more open side has a bright sound that could even work for some rock stuff i'd say. i think some of this has to do with the natural brightness in this guitars sound, and i like it, as someone who always prefers a darker sound. this reminds me somewhat of joe pass on virtuoso, at least that ballpark. obviously it's great for blues / bluegrass like this. the darker side of the tone knob brings out all of your favorite jazz box stereotype sounds, but it maintains that articulation and punchyness in the sweetest way. the settings in the middle are, obviously, in between, sound equally as good, and are equally as useful. the eastman had a fantastic plugged in sound, look up some of the youtube demos yourself- it's a amazing sounding guitar. i just felt (this is only my oppinion!) that it only sounded good on the darker side of the tone knob, for straight ahead dark jazzbox sounds. mind you, i never saw it that way until i bought the godin. that one sound i really dug from the eastman though, with the tone almost all the way down, was utterly fantastic, and sounded better than the godin for straight-ahead jazz type of stuff- but i can't say it wins by much.
playability - both guitars feel awesome. they were both well setup when i got them, and i tweaked them both slightly for my own taste. both are easy to get playing how you want them. the godin does lack the upper cutaway, which the first time around led me to the eastman, but after playing it all day it really doesn't bother me that much. the satin finish on the neck of the godin feels awesome, too. the one thing i dont like (i may just need to adjust) is that the godin's pickguard comes up higher than im used to and creates a bit of a weird feeling when i hit it, because im not used to anything being that close to the strings. i might just take it off, but its a pretty minor thing and not worth going into my basement for the screwdriver to do it.
there's a bit of a price difference, i believe the eastman retails around $900 and the godin around $700, but both are insane value for the money, and if you buy used it'll be even better. to close this review the way i started it- seriously, if this guitar was stolen, chances are i'd buy whichever of these two i could get a better price on at that point and time, considering my local craigslist and ebay. these guitars are amazing budget archtops. i played 2 ibanez artcore models when i was shopping the first time and can say i'd rule those out of my shopping list altogether- they are nice, and cheaper- i do recommend them to my students- but they're not this nice. these are definitely worth the extra money.
so, hopefully some of you are interested in this side by side, and i hope if someone eventually narrows it down to these to choices like i did, they'll have a little better insight into how they compare. also, i know it shouldent matter, but the kingpin is hanging on the wall infront of me right now and that cognac burst is one of the nicest finishes i've ever seen in my life.
thanks for reading,
t
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12-23-2013 02:10 AM
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I love my Kingpin... great guitar. Also got it used and changed the bridge, pickups and electronics. Total cost 500€ for a killer and very versatile guitar... the best I tried on this price range.
I was very disappointed with the 371 I played in NY this summer... maybe this forum put my expectations too high but I thought it was not even a close competitor to the Kingpin.
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I have an Eastman and a Godin, but not those models. I have an AR403 and a Montreal Premiere. They're entirely different animals, and the Godin cost a lot more than the Eastman, but I love them both. I do have to admit that while the build quality on my particular Eastman is very good, the Godin is absolutely impeccable in that regard - and that includes electronics (well, maybe not the pickups, but I like them) and hardware as well.
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I too, own a Kingpin and have tried a 371...i really need to find another 371 to try because my whole opinion on that guitar is based on one experience with one guitar, and that guitar was a DOG.
Till then, I'll keep telling folks the Kingpin is the best budget "Jazz guitar" out there, because I firmly believe it is.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
you're recording of laura that you posted in older threads, recorded with the kingpin, was one of the reasons i narrowed it down to the kingpin or eastman in the first place. tell me, how was that recorded? strings, amp, mics, ext...
because from what i recall it's a completely legit sounding recording, and theres nothing "budget" about it!
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Glad you liked it! Probably just the Kingpin into a polytone mb iii, mic'd with an sm 57. I don't really love recording so i keep it pretty simple.
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my primary instrument, and performance degree is in string bass. i'd done many recordings with two multi-thousand dollar microphones as well as a $500 contact mic on the instrument (and several variations of complex ways to get a good sound.) i recently did a recording of a bach fugue, and have never heard my instrument sound better than it did on that recording - nice size / sounding room, and just one microphone a few feet infront of me. my lesson was learned then that less is more. the more complex things get the further you get from the sound of your instrument! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
i dont own any guitar amps, so if i record this - just like when i did with the eastman- i'll be going direct and maybe adding just a touch of digital verb. i don't suspect anything but a great sound that way, really.
anyway, what strings are on you're kingpin? i dont know whats on mine- they're rounds, and d'addario. i think 12 gague but im not positive. i'll wear these out then try something new.
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I've used .12 gauge flats on there for a while.
Yeah, simple can be good...it's funny how easy it is to forget that.
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I think your description of the Kingpin sound is spot on. The tone knob seems to have more of a linear response than most guitars. This is a really articulate guitar that responds well to changes in pick attack, etc. It is also a very comfortable guitar for fingerpicking.
I traded mine last year for a vintage Harmony acoustic but do miss it. I was thinking of getting an acoustic Fifth Avenue and installing a magnetic floater just for something different.
I always had nickel rounds on mine - the rounds respond more to playing style and complement the pickup IMO, while the nickel strings provide more of a warm, vintage sound.
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I had a Kingpin with the P90 but I sold it and got an acoustic 5th Avenue with a Bartolini floater installed. Both are nice guitars with unique sounds. The 5th Avenues are some of the most comfortable, well-playing guitars I have ever had.
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I find myself in a similar story, but mine is the other way round...I still have the Eastman
Both are really fantastic guitars....I'd give the a nod to the Godin for the finish for sure, not that there's a thin wrong with my 371. But that French polish was awesome! I had purchased the 5th avenue, and installed a Kent Armstrong p90 (his handcrafted one, not the overseas pups) to hang off the guard, along with some stealth wheels. There's a pic or two floating around here on the forum somewhere 
In the end, the tiny frets on the Godin got me down. The Eastman has nice jumbos, and the nut width is good and wide for my fat fingers. The cutaway was also missed, more than I thought i would! One day, I'd like to have both again, because the Godin was really a different little beast. I will also totally concur with the useable tone control.
I should mention, I also took out the stock Eastman pup and put in a Pete Biltoft P90. I'm a sucker for a P90 in an archtop.
What a tough life we lead theses days...all these choices! In the end, both are fantastic gigging guitars, I played the snot outta the Godin, now I'm doing the same with the Eastman. Yeehaw!
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Anyone try the Godin 5th Ave Composer GT ?
I had a 5th Avenue CW II, a lovely guitar, but I didn't quite bond with it. I think it may have been the P90s. My main guitar us an Ibanez AS thinline semi, but I still have a hankering for a mid-price archtop - perhaps the Composer, although more expensive than the P90 5th Aves, would hit the spot for me.
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I tried the Godin 5th Ave Composer GT (fixed humbucker) back to back with the 5th Avenue Jazz (floater) and I liked the sound of the Jazz better because it seemed a little "punchier" and it is appointed better. Both were nice guitars, though. The Composer fits in nicely between the spartan Kingpin and the upscale Jazz.
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those are both nice guitars- a little higher price range though. Originally Posted by Chazmo
played the godin a lot today. i really like this thing more and more every day.
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I own both a 371 and a Kingpin. For the 371, I replaced the stock humbucker with a Duncan Prails and triple-shot switching. Since the 371 pup is easily height adjustable and the Kingpin is not, I set the 371 to the same output level on its p90 setting as the Kingpin. Both guitars now sound virtually identical amplified (I test this by using a looper to record). The Kingpin has a tiny bit more "zing" and the 371 has a few dull spots up around the 10th fret, but otherwise they sound the same. I attribute the slight difference to the tusq bridge on the Kingpin vs the wood bridge on the 371. But the difference is extremely small and certainly non-existent at gig levels - or even rehearsal levels!
In my opinion, the main difference between the two -- assuming a p90 in both -- is not sonic, but aesthetic and ergonomic. The obvious difference between the 2 is the 371 is cutaway and the Kingpin is not. The necks also both feel substantially different from one another, with the 371 being fairly skinny and the Kingpin having that rough Godin feel to the back of the neck. And my 371 is a sunburst whereas my Kingpin is a natural blonde.
I'll take either of 'em to a gig, but depending on the feel I want to invoke -- and assuming I know the venue has clean enough electricity for p90's -- one or the other might win out. If I'm playing a bunch of old jazz and blues, the Kingpin looks right to me, but if I want a more 50's jazz feel, or I really need hot-rod access to the upper frets, the 371 get the call.
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i love hearing from other people that owned both guitars! Originally Posted by D.G.
i'm surprised you say they sound almost the same. at least with the stock pups, i observed the difference described- especially the versatility in one tone knob on the kingpin.
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My Kingpin seemed like a very versatile guitar. I could get more of an acoustic sound than you would think possible for a fixed P 90 or I could get the Joe Pass/ES 175 vibe going, depending on how I set the tone knob.
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The really noticeable sonic difference between the 2 guitars stock will be the difference between a humbucker and a p90 Originally Posted by Groooooove
Tone knobs are ridiculously easy to mod. Also, I don't really use tone or volume knobs on neck pickups. So yes, there is a noticable difference between a humbucker loaded laminated archtop and a p90 loaded laminated archtop
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of corse. i don't like to mod my instruments too much, so i was just talking bone-stock. Originally Posted by D.G.
The really noticeable sonic difference between the 2 guitars stock will be the difference between a humbucker and a p90 Tone knobs are ridiculously easy to mod. Also, I don't really use tone or volume knobs on neck pickups. So yes, there is a noticable difference between a humbucker loaded laminated archtop and a p90 loaded laminated archtop
i am still a bit surprised though, because the acoustic sound is very different as well.
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Oh yes, the acoustic sound is quite different between the two, but plugged in with the same type pickup, not really anything tonally worth noticing. They're both loud enough acoustically to be usable for practice without needing to plug in, but if I want to play an actual acoustic guitar, I have a pair that do me pretty well in that department, a JWC Manouche long scale D-hole gypsy guitar, and an Eastman 905 non-cutaway. Originally Posted by Groooooove
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When we did some recording with my combo, we played live and I was struck by how simple the engineer kept things. An SM-57 on my amp, a big old ribbon mic in front of the bass (which sounded magnificent), a mic each for the sax and trumpet and the drums in an isolation booth with a few mics. Setting me up took less than five minutes, setting the bass up took ten minutes and setting up the horns took the longest mainly due to trying to place the mics where they would properly pick up the horns without blocking their view of the charts. But the engineer got our sound quickly and effectively by keeping it simple and then we could just focus on playing. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Good mics make such a huge difference. The ribbon mics on the bass and the sax had a beautiful, full warm sound.
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less is always more. if you EQ something or add reverb to a point where it's clearly noticeable, you're most likely harming the overall sound. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Reverb is mostly a matter of taste but it does not "harm your sound". What do you mean by "eq something"? Eq is the only thing that can save you on a lot of situations. Originally Posted by Groooooove
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+1 Originally Posted by Groooooove
When recording, subtractive EQ if necessary, additive EQ if no other options exist
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Why? Originally Posted by D.G.
+1
When recording, subtractive EQ if necessary, additive EQ if no other options exist
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