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i really liked the two Heritage's with the floaters, and the L5-Wes.
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12-22-2013 12:28 PM
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I do remember seeing this when it was originally done a while ago. I'm glad that Makis did it again and included the Gibsons. Some observations;
Firstly, kudos to feet for some spot on comments.
The Super Eagle doesn't look at all like a Super Eagle. Wrong pick guard and it appears to have block finger board inlays when it should have split blocks. I'm aware that those could be custom spec's. But, if you look closely at the size of the Super Eagle as compared to the two Golden Eagles . . . they appear to be very similar. The confirmation for me was the huge voice . . only attainable from an 18" box. The Super Eagle was definitely my favorite.
The Gibsons sounded like .. well . . Gibsons! They were wonderful. Someone please spin up the L5 demo. Isolate on the begining of the video, most especially at 18 seconds in. It apears to have a slight bit of edge/break up.?.?
It also seemed to me that Makis was most comfortable with the 16" boxes. Anyone else notice that?
Both 16" guitars, the Sweetie and the L4 had too small of a voice for my taste.
The Eastman 910 sounded pretty damned good. But, the 805 and the New Yorker XL sounded lifeless.
The Hofner seemed to have acceptable tone . . yet I found it to be a bit understated and timid. Could have been the pup?
For my ears, the Golden Eagle with the floater sounded fantastic. That, to me is surpising . . because it appears to have the stock pickup . . which, while not terrible . . just isn't that great of a pickup.
This might sound biased . . but, it's really not . .. it never ever ceases to amaze me, what wonderful tone the craftspeople at Heritage can get out of a jazz box.
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Yeah . . . well . . . it's an original D'A New Yorker. What would you expect?
Originally Posted by Philco
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I like all these guitars sounds....
anyway my favorities are:
Heritage Golden Eagle with floatin' pickup
Heritage H 550
Thanks Makis
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Cool demo. but man, you guys kill me, I must have the worst hearing of anyone in the world.
They all sounded great to me, and the playing is nice, but without knowing what amp/amp settings was used, whether the tone and volume controls were open all the way, whether each clip had the same amp/guitar settings, coupled with the fact that audio on youtube isn't that high quality, I'm amazed at the kind of distinctions (wonderful, lifeless, harsh, complex,bland) you guys can make from these clips. I listened with decent headphones and I can't hear a significant difference between these that isn't much more likely to come from other factors than the guitar itself.
For example, isn't the tone rolled off on the first clip in comparison to the second? (super eagle v golden eagle). If it is, then can you really compare them? Moreover, the clips sound very different from other clips with the same guitar in someone else's hands.
What floors me is how you guys can conclude from these clips that you *prefer* the sound of one over another. I can't hear anything that would make me prefer one over the other. I believe you do, I just feel inadequate, since despite having played jazz guitar for a long time I can't hear anything on these videos that makes me think I (or *insert famous player's name here*) would sound better with one of these rather than another in my hands.
For me, issues like which one feeds back less at volume or, is the guitar to be played unamplified, or, what it sounds in the hands of someone who plays with a similar technique as I do, would have infinitely more impact on which one of these fine guitars I would want than the small difference I heard in these clips.
What would be cool would be for makam to redo this in much higher audio quality, with identical settings, perhaps both amplified and unamplified, and blind to eliminate prejudices.
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Why did the floater/Eagle surprise me with .012 flats? Because it had a nice acoustic snap without even trying. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Last edited by Spook410; 12-22-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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Pkirk +1
This is just internet and internet test.
It is funny...;-)
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Hey, thanks for the demos!
it's rare to hear so many different guitars, and from different makers, lined up in such a close comparison, especially the attempt to play basically the same music each time. Really helps you to focus on the sound of each instrument (as possible , given the limits of Internet audio - but I did listen through good headphones).
The L-5 Wes and the Golden Eagle floater were the ones I enjoyed most. The Eagle's pickup didn't sound overly bright or 'brittle' to my ears (tho obviously the Wes is darker) - just nice and clear.
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Bernstein's guitar has a regular PAF set as a floater, not a good example. Originally Posted by kris
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Thank you all for your warm correspondence.
I have to emphasize some facts about the particular guitars of the review.
First, we have floaters and built in pickups that sound differently and this is subjective.
Floaters have a clearer tone with a more tight bass response and a somewhat hi fi treble, that is fine when you play in a band with a drummer and bass player more modern jazzy staff. (Benson is a great example of this, but Benson is Benson whatever he plays)
Think also of the way Benson holds and strums with his pick...He holds the pick with a steep angle with the strings.
I would prefare built in hums when playing with a guitar duo or when I like to sound fat and 'dark'.
Another fact is the pick itself. I always believe that the most immediate eq. is the pick and the way you hit the strings.
Different material, thikness, shape and angle make a huge difference on sound...
Another fact is the scale length of each guitar. Here we have five Heritage, one Gibson and one D'Angelico with long scale (25,5'') two Eastmans and one Hofner with medium scale (25'') and one Gibson L4 with short scale (24 3/4'').
This also contribute to the overall sound and of course the feel of each instrument.
As of the amp I used for the recording, it was a stock Fender silverface twin with the treble on 2, middle on 5 and bass on 1,5.
The Super Eagle is a stock guitar with split block inlays and a different pickguard (a Golden Eagle copy) as I don't like the stock Super pickguards. (I think they don't have some artistic point, in contrary with Goldens pickguard that is an art object-subjective
)
I'm surprised that only one or two comments refer about the D'Angelico which is the least expensive of the whole bunch and is surprisingly good both acoustically and electrically, even though it's a laminate wood guitar...
Of course another major fact is the feel of each particular guitar and the way they behave in a live situation but this is totally objective and I would like to express my personal view in a latter reply.
Merry ChristmasLast edited by makam; 12-22-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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Funny how things work out sometimes - I watched your clip of the D'A last night and commented that I thought it sounded quite good for a non-expensive guitar. Then by pure coincidence I was woken up by a phone call this morning by a friend telling me there was one on Ebay here in Australia and that I should bid on it (I currently play an L4 but have been looking for a 17" by 3" to fit my body better as I'm fairly tall with long arms). I won the bid - it's 8 months old with the stock pickup replaced by a Bartolini 5J. Should have it in little over a week Originally Posted by makam
Makis, what made me pull the trigger was seeing your clip so I'm grateful for your efforts.
Longer term, I'm thinking I'll end up with something like a Farlow, but hopefully this D'A will be an excellent backup guitar that I can take on plane flights etc. and gig on happily.
Just curious, do you remember what pick and strings you used when recording that particular clip?
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I should be clear, I didn't think any of the floaters sounded brittle here...i just lean towards the set pups in Maks vids.
The 550 and set pup eagle were close seconds for me...The L5 was a badass too.
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These settings surprised me, are you using an external EQ? (and I assume the bass setting was 1.5 correct?) Originally Posted by makam
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I know about that but it is set as floating Paf. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I have also floating PAF on my jazz box...sorry it is not regular PAF...;-)
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The Howard Roberts I used to play had a floating paf (stock) + that model has a laminate top. I guess you could say that guitar amplified sounded sort of like a cross between a mounted paf and a normal floater. But still definitely a floater. Bernstein's axe in essence still sounds like a floater to me.
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Yeah but the main difference when we talk about floating vs set-in is not so much pickup position but pickup type: mini vs regular humbucker. You can try to find a luthier that tries a solution similar to his Originally Posted by kris
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Bernstein sounds very PAF to me... acoustic because he rolls off the volume and the gutiar has amazing acoustic sound but a still PAF sound not a mini humbucker one. Originally Posted by 3625
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Yeah Jorge, I agree - I was just pointing out the difference between a mounted paf and a floating one which is fairly distinct. Interesting why mini-hb's caught on the way they did on carved tops - whether how much was because of the way they sound, or because they look smaller and more elegant. I still like the way some mini-hb's sound of course, but floating paf's to me still look cool as well (and sound great).
This new guitar I've got coming has got a Bartolini 5J (mini-hb) - I've never had a pickup like that before, so I'll see how it works for me. Hopefully the string balance will work with Thomastik flatwound 11's - usually on paf's I need to adjust the pole pieces a lot to compensate for the lack of magnetism in the bass strings and wound g - whereas this bartolini, like the benedetto pu's is unadjustable. Maybe the pickup's design is different and that won't be an issue - wait and see...
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Off topic, but.. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I was at Pete's gig and workshop in Athens this December.
The guitar acoustically sound pretty much the same with his amp tone, is like the amp warms up the guitar tone, that's it! What a great instrument his Zeidler...
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I might get a custom archtop soon and already told my luthier I want a regular PAF in there as a float... now it's up to him Originally Posted by 3625
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His Zeidler is amazing!! I've also attended a workshop some years ago and when I was in NY I say him live with his blackface vibrolux... He's indeed able to bring a lot of the guitar's sound trough the amp but the amp also imparts a sonic signature, I hear some of the classic blackface sound on his tone. A mix of both I would say Originally Posted by disco~juice
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Bernstein uses amplification like Jim Hall and Jimmy Raney in his later years...just enough to augment the guitar, not overpower it.
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I like my sound and do not want to change.... Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Yeah but the main difference when we talk about floating vs set-in is not so much pickup position but pickup type: mini vs regular humbucker. You can try to find a luthier that tries a solution similar to his
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would you like to be next PB?...:-) Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I might get a custom archtop soon and already told my luthier I want a regular PAF in there as a float... now it's up to him
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That's the classic fully carved, solid tone wood archtop with floating pup sound. Nothing is cut into the wood to dampen the sound and the top vibrates freely, so the actual acoustic sound of the guitar radiates through the amp very well. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
His Zeidler is amazing!! I've also attended a workshop some years ago and when I was in NY I say him live with his blackface vibrolux... He's indeed able to bring a lot of the guitar's sound trough the amp but the amp also imparts a sonic signature, I hear some of the classic blackface sound on his tone. A mix of both I would say
Apart from the laminate Gibby HR (which I used to have--with the oval. Hole it made for a bright sounding guitar--which I liked), set in pups only make sense to me on laminate boxes--the classic 175 sort of sound.
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