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I love my Mambo 8 Wedge. If I had to just have one amp, this would be it. Holds its own at gigs, sounds great, super-portable, headphone-out, for some reason is more feedback resistant than a ZT Lunchbox or even Lunchbox Jr. in a small practice room, does not look out of place in living room, etc.
I play out of the house about 3 times a week, so I want to make this my dedicated practice amp for home and then have a 2nd amp for playing out. I practice a lot, and the Mambo just works perfectly in my home for this purpose.
My main gigging (I use this term loosely, but we do play out once a week and with a view to more in the coming years as I improve) buddy is a drummer. I don't have a suitable bass player yet - i.e. a non-pro who is 'on the path' to becoming a decent jazzer. So sometimes it's just me and drummer, and sometimes it's guitar + drums + piano, and sometimes we add a killer horn player plus some sort of bassist. In these settings, my Mambo 8 lacks some presence (I think)...the volume is there, but it can sound a bit small at times especially without a bassist.
I was thinking of getting a Mambo 10, but given I already have a Mambo 8 it might be silly to buy what is virtually the same amp. Yes, I know the 10 will give me a bigger sound, but it's still a SS closed-back amp.
Therefore I'm strongly considering a Vintage Sound JZ-15, which is apparently the ultimate jazz Princeton and has a 12" speaker/open-back design with lots of clean headroom. It weights 30 lbs. vs. 20 lbs. for the Mambo 10 Wedge. I think the JZ-15 will give me enough volume for what I do. I have not yet ruled out the Mambo 10. To those who tried both the 8 and the 10 - is the 10 significantly bigger sounding with more, um, 'presence'?
I don't use any pedals. 16" x 3" laminate archtop > cable > amp. My sound concept is Kenny Burrell.
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12-09-2013 01:07 PM
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CV, I know you think the Evans is too complicated but I would really suggest that you come by and try mine before you buy anything. 99% of the time, I just use the setting that Scot told to try with just a minor tweak. Occasionally I change the treble and bass but that's really it.
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There are various other factors like weight, size (specifically, height...where only a few inches makes the difference between it fitting or not fitting into my car), etc and I've carefully considered all of those things to arrive at this A vs. B choice....Mambo 10 Wedge or JG-15. I'm not going to consider anything else.
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Yes, the mambo 10 has significantly more presence than the 8, and the mambo 12 has significantly more presence/ volume than the 10. I went from the 8 to the 10, but the 12 wasn't available then.
Compared to a Princeton with a 12" and 6l6s, so maybe 25 clean watts, the mambo 10 has somewhat more effective headroom, not less, but you'd use them in the same way- smaller gigs. I find that my modded Princeton struggles slightly with a heavy handed piano player or drummer. The mambo 12 can handle most gigs, I'd think.
The mambo 10 and the 10" Evans model have about equal useable volume and presence IMO; the advantage of the Evans is its versatility and tweakability; the advantage of the mambo 10 is that, although less versatile, it has a weight to the upper notes that the Evans can't get on any setting, and it does it without sounding tubby or 'honky'.
The other mambo advantage, compared to the Evans, is the price, in Europe at least.
But, I know what you mean about getting the mambo 10 after owning the 8; if you were going to stick with mambo, I'd go for the 12. A world of difference, in terms of gigability, and it sounds very big. 'Course, you still have that blonde wood look…..you might want a change from that maybe.
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If there is one thing I love about my Mambo, it is indeed the weight to the upper notes. I can't stand thin-sounding upper notes. I'll trade away bass for strong upper notes any day of the week. That is one reason why if I decide to stick with SS, I'm sticking with Mambo.
I hear you on the Mambo 12 vs. the Mambo 10 Franz, but I was turned off by the weight of the 12. Maybe I should email Jon to confirm the weight of a Wedge 12...the website says 12 kg but that may be for the Cube 12 and perhaps a Wedge 12 would be a fair bit lighter. Having said that, I think the Mambos punch above their weight, and so for me the Mambo 10 would most likely be sufficient. The Mambo 8 is just a bit small at times, so moving to the 10 would probably solve all my concerns. Also a 10" speaker would be less prone to feedback.
The Mambo 10 would be about $500 less expensive to me vs. the JG-15, all things considered. And 12 lbs lighter. I feel myself talking myself into the Mambo. Maybe someone from the tube side will stop by to smack some sense into me.
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I've been gassing for one of those VSA princeton clones for a while, especially the JZ-15 (really like the clip on the Sound Island Music site). And, in full disclosure, I've also owned a Mambo. The only forum member I recall who's tried the VSA 15 is 2bornot2bop, who if I'm remembering right thought the 15 watts was pretty loud.
Are you close enough to Seattle to make a trip to Sound Island Music?
I guess the good news is that neither choice is irreversible. My sense is you could pretty quickly sell either the Mambo or the VSA if it didn't turn out to be the one.
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CV, I just weighed my mambo 12 cube..11.5 kg. My guess is that the wedge would be maybe 1kg lighter.
But I totally understand the dilemma- there is something about hot tubes in a small open-back cab; I really wanted to carry on using my princeton
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I have a Vintage Sound 15, but I don't have a mambo to compare it to. I have used Roland cubes before (the old orange ones not the newer ones) and I had a jazzmaster ultralight at one time. I would take the VS 15 over either of those two any day of the week but I'm one who gravitates to tube amps. The advantage something like the mambo may have is pure power which can translate into bass and mid authority in my experience. The VSA 15 is a really good combination of sound, really good reverb, eq (has a mid control), weight and compact size. I practice with mine too and I kind of hate to play through other amps because I'm kind of used to the way it sounds. I have taken the VSA out to rock gigs and have been very impressed with it in that context as well.
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Excellent, these are very helpful replies I'm getting. I do live close to Seattle and I've visited Sound Island once before. Michael Biller is a super guy - the one time I visited him I did not have any of my usual guitars with me so I was not able to do a particularly useful comparison, in hindsight. I'd love to purchase from Michael because he's always been very helpful with my questions, and I'm sure the JG-15 is a killer amp. He does not have it in stock though so the closest I could get is to try a JG-50 which he does have in stock (but it's 20 lbs heavier than the Mambo 10 Wedge!)...in fact I was going to try the JG-50 a few weeks ago but I had to cut that trip a bit short and so I could not connect with Michael.
I've emailed Jon Shaw for a weight estimate on the Mambo 12 Wedge. Maybe I should get around to trying that JG-50 as an approximator of the JG-15 before I make my final decision.
Franz - what led to you ceasing to use your modded Princeton in favour of the Mambo 12?
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CV- quick reply before getting stuck into the red wine- I have to cover gigs from coffee houses to ( sometimes) bigger pubs/small halls, and also know some fairly loud drummers and tenor players, and the princeton doesn't either have the clean headroom or those weighty, punchy upper notes ( even tho' I have modded the preamp to the 5E8 classic semi-bax stack) that even the 10" mambo does.
The Princeton's thing is 3-D clean, with a little mid-scoop even after modding; that's what they do, as we know.
Don't want to put you off a tube amp at all, I love 'em, mod them and have grown up with them, but it's really a question of practicality and the size of gigs you're likely to do. At home, I sometimes prefer a tube amp for the clarity and 3-dimensional quality…and for only, say, a duo or drummer-less trio, they are great
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OK, that has been very helpful Franz. I don't think I can get away from those weighty/punchy upper notes, especially as I occasinally play with some really killer horn players who produce incredible tone. Come to think of it, it was lack of weight on those notes that led to me passing over VHT tube amp recently, and when I was at Sound Island trying some amps (although through a weird guitar) it was those upper notes that were sometimes a bit thin to me. I guess I'm just hooked on SS power. Now it's just a matter of deciding on the Wedge 12 vs. Wedge 10. I'm leaning heavily towards the 10. I just think it's enough for what I do, and it's sufficiently lighter vs. the 12 to make transportation a lot easier...but let me wait to hear from Jon on the actual weight of a Wedge 12.
Last edited by coolvinny; 12-09-2013 at 05:07 PM. Reason: typo
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I have a Mambo head that I use with a Mambo 10 cab (now with an EV) and with a big EV 1x12 cab. A friend has the 8 combo and we play a lot together.. the 10 has clearly more presence / depth / bass. I am with Chris on the 12.
The VS amps look great. I would not go for 15w myself... I am sure they can make a Princeton sized 35w 6l6. For jazz VS has a custom tone stack and usually a two-knob reverb instead of the vibrato.. the custom VS tone stack it's probably closer to the Mambo than the regular blackface one.
If you love the Mambo so much just get the 12 and a trolley to carry it
If you want some diversity the VS is probably a better choice although I find the stock blackface design not very good for jazz honestly.
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Vinny,
You don't need a new amp, you just need an extension cab! That will significantly increase your volume in the room. Anything will work: 1x12, 1x10; I have a 2x8 that pushes air. If you like the Mambo, just get another cab.
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Do the Mambo combos have output for an extension cab? I don't see this on the pics on the website. The head has two outputs, but that's it.
Originally Posted by marcwhy
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You're right, Big Daddy -- the head can run two cabs, but the stock combos cannot (although it's a custom option, I believe). That's a design flaw, IMO, for exactly the scenario Vinny's talking about. [The Quilter combos, however, do have an extension speaker output] Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Don't agree about that - it's a tradeoff, not a design flaw. The mambo combos are designed to put all the available 180W rms into the on-board speaker, and the tradeoff is that you can't then add an extension speaker, as it would then overheat the amp. Yes it is a custom option on the mambo, but the price is reduced internal power- no getting around that. Jon Shaw has taken the view( rightly, judging by the few requests for ext speaker format) that most users would rather have all the power available to the internal speaker. Originally Posted by marcwhy
Other amps ( e.g. Evans, jazz amp, don't know about Quilter) only put out full power when an extension speaker is added, thus meaning that stand-alone use is running on often half-power and reduced headroom.
For example, the Evans RE200 is rated at 200 watts, but only puts 100W into the internal 8 ohm speaker; if you want 200 watts you have to add the external speaker. Cynics have suggested that this enabled manufacturers to get away with lower rated internal speakers in the past, altho these days that might not be so. And, you have to read the small print; not all manufacturers are particularly forthcoming about this aspect.
Anyway, it's a simple tradeoff. Personally I'd rather have it this way, as lugging an extra cab is a bit of a pain. However if you want an extension speaker on a mambo you can have it, but the amp will run at only 90W internal power into a 16 ohm speaker, which to my mind rather defeats the point of the very compact, high power format.
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I agree with Jorge about 15w for a tube amp; 35W is more like it for reasonable headroom. But he's being ironic about the trolley for a mambo 12 ( aren't you J?) ; even I can manage a 13.5x13.5x12.5 24 lb box with one hand. Of course by the time you've piled up all the other stuff, music stands, mains leads, looper boxes, iPads/ books, yes a trolley really does help…dunno about the rest of you, but my " stuff" suitcase weighs more than my amp. Maybe I don't need 10 spare leads and that heavy duty music stand with the holes in the plate, you know the one...
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There's actually one simple solution for that, I have used it in many combos in the past (and discussed it with Jon when I was thinking about getting the combo): add an internal speaker switch (on/off) and a speaker output. This way you can use the combo as an head... (and it's so small it's actually a good idea). Just turn the internal speaker off and get a 8 ohms 12 cab - you'll have the full 180w
Chris actually I was not joking... I developed a shoulder problem exactly due to carrying amps for too long. Yes the mambo is light and you can lift it and carry it but carrying 12 kgs on one hand for say 5 minutes is not a good idea... Getting trolleys to get my stuff around was the best decision I made in years. And, as you say, we always need to carry extra cables, extra pics, music stand, music sheet and tons of other small stuff
PS - I do know the music stands you're talking about.. When I started gigging I used those. Not these days - I have one of those crappy small light 5€ ones. I rarely use them actually, I rather play by memory these days. Sometimes I even put the music sheet on the floor but I never ever carry those music stands - hell, I don't even carry a guitar stand these days, if double bass players can put their 300 years old instruments on the floor so can I
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I would not use my Mambo to drive another cab even if I could - just not my style. I like the way Jon has designed them. I dont even like speaker on/off switches...the paranoid in me worries it one day the switch will get stuck in "off" mode! I like simple and uncluttered.
Trolleys are not for me in most situations - just a personal choice. I think the Mambo 10 is the logical choice for me so I can just carry everything on my person. I rarely carry any sheet music around, and can usually slot a few loose sheets into the case I put my Mambo into (which then goes over my shoulder) if I want to pass them to my jam-mates. I always just put my guitar back in the case...those bassists are brave!Last edited by coolvinny; 12-10-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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By the way, Jon estimates the 12 Wedge to be approx. 1.6 lbs (0.75kg) lighter than the Cube. That is just an estimate though. He also suggests that I go with the 10", and I think for me that is indeed the right choice. But thanks for all the helpful perspectives.
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After playing a gig last night with my Mambo 8 and hearing from audience folks that I there was no lack of volume/fullness from my little amp, I am not yet convinced I even need to go bigger. I think I'm just going to bide my time for a while and get a better sense of my long-term needs, and perhaps give the JG-50 a proper audition. They make a "John Stowell" version which is 4" shorter (only 1" taller than the JG-15) and it would probably fit in my car.
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After a recent big band gig and then playing around on a Princeton RI at a local shop with my archtop, I'm pretty sure the Vintage Sound JZ-15 will have more than enough volume for me and will give me that extra presence i need in some situations. The open back and larger speaker (only a 10 in the fender obviously) sound different from the Mambo in a way that will be useful, and will make my jazz tele a bit more usable for those times when I don't want to take my more delicate archtop (eg big band gigs in tight spaces where there are brass instruments going every which way). Pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on it. Less weight on those upper notes as someone mentioned, but still enough.
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I've been on the SS/ mambo side of the argument here, but…marginally influenced by this thread and just fancying a change, I hauled out my modded princeton yesterday to a gig in a medium sized place with 3 other players, inc tenor.
Have to say, I was sitting there thinking " that's the sound".
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I get you Chris.. sometimes I just "need" to take my Henriksen / BarbQ instead of the Mambo. A fender sound with some more mids (like the BarbQ and your Princeton can do) can be perfect for jazz!
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Haha, that is kind of what I thought when I took my Mambo 8 to a local store to A/B vs. the stock Princeton they had. But...there are so many variables: open back vs. closed back; tubes vs. solid state; settings on the amp; THE ROOM. Originally Posted by Franz 1997
Yes, the room. I thought afterwards about how my Mambo sounded really boxy in the store, and I think it may be due to the room being acoustically dead: lots of stuff everywhere, thick carpeting, etc. At home, where I practice in a 20' x 20' space (roughtly) with wood floors, it's like my Mambo's immediate surroundings make it sound a lot more airy. In practice, I find most jam spaces to be more like my home than the store.
Anyways, I'm still deliberating on what amp to get next. Even though I promised to only look at the Mambo vs. JZ-15, I have to admit that I am a little curious about the Quilter Aviator 8. Still an 8 and still closed back, but a larger enclosure and apparently a very big sound. And it fits my "height" requirement at 14.5", which allows me to fit it into the car without maiming my dog. If I lived in the US I'd just try it with their 30-day return program, but being in Canada that option is not fully feasible, or at least is more expensive to attempt. Tough decisions.
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I agree totally about the room, CV. This particular space was wood floor, brick walls etc, and made everything sound airy and full - fortunately without any feedback. I notice that amps that sound great at home don't always sound great on gigs, and vice-versa. Amps with boosted T&B sound good at home, but get lost on a gig; amps that sound good in carpeted rooms don't in a bigger space. I know many find a princeton-style amp perfect at home, but for me it really shines in a group setting - altho' the limitations about headroom are still there, for me at least.
Jorge, I agree; it's all about the mids, the T and B can be adjusted. I think you'll agree that speaker choice has got so much to do with this; for example, I tried a Eminence CR in the princeton and it just didn't work in the mids at all, but an Altec 417 really works. Ok, it weighs 35 lb now. Similarly EV s do tend to suit SS amps really well I find, but maybe less so for some tube amps. Personally I think the speaker characteristics is THE principal factor in determining the ( clean) sound of a combo amp; they make a complex difference that can't be replicated with a simple outboard eq adjustment.
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I'm quite curious about the Quilter, if you do try it CV. I believe it's described at having 100W per channel; I don't get what that means at all ( or, if 2 channels and 2 amps, why?? - is it stereo??) . Not too keen on the cosmetics, but that's personal taste of course. I confess that Fender amps are the default standard for cosmetics for me, but that just shows my age...
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