P90 sound from humbucker

[D.G.]

I just picked up an Eastman 403 SB and I'm looking to swap out the pickup. I also have a 371 that I installed a Duncan P-Rails and triple shot switching into, but for the 403 I'm looking for a different solution.

For the 403 I'm looking for the sound of a P90 -- specifically how the bottom strings "snap" -- but in a standard sized noiseless humbucker. And yes, I know it probably can't be done, but I'd be happy with something that was about 85% there. As an example, the sound of the p-rails in parallel would be good enough.

Oh, and the other criteria is a gold cover

I've done a fair amount of research and I'm leaning towards either a Lollartron or a Fralin overwound P-92, but I'm certainly open to other ideas.

Thanks!

[mangotango]

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai...s.php?cat=p90s

[spiral]

Lollartron

I'm glad to send some clips of the Lollartron if you have interest. I had one in my AR371 but it's more PAF than Filtertron. It does have more clarity and less mud than a standard PAF but not near the growl or sparkle of a P90. It didn't have the clarity i sought—but it's a really good pickup and might work for your needs.

I started a similar thread and can recommend checking out the El Rayo. The Twangmaster and P92 were also suggested. My Lollartron is on the way back to Seattle and will have an El Rayo in a few weeks at which time i will create a comparison recording.

[D.G.]

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai...s.php?cat=p90s

Needs to be an actual humbucker, not just humbucker sized

[D.G.]

I'm glad to send some clips of the Lollartron if you have interest. I had one in my AR371 but it's more PAF than Filtertron. It does have more clarity and less mud than a standard PAF but not near the growl or sparkle of a P90. It didn't have the clarity i sought—but it's a really good pickup and might work for your needs.

I started a similar thread and can recommend checking out the El Rayo. The Twangmaster and P92 were also suggested. My Lollartron is on the way back to Seattle and will have an El Rayo in a few weeks at which time i will create a comparison recording.

I've been following your thread, but I thought I'd start my own because I think our criteria might be slightly different

As an example, I'm not looking for a necessarily "bright" tone like a strat or tele, but pretty specifically a p90 type tone. P90's can be fairly dark, but all of the p90's I have give a good "thwang" on the low strings, whereas humbuckers tend to give a sort of hollowish "thud" especially down around the low G through E. I don't really want an "airier" tone, which I equate with less mids, but a sort of "tough" mid stance, again like a p90. Bright humbuckers tend to be lacking in the crucial mid frequencies that create "thwang" instead of "thud" and can be overly piercing on the high strings. P90's seem to be the perfect archtop tone for me, but the buzz, oh the buzz!!!!

Another tone I could go for in a standard humbucker package would be a Fender Wide Range Humbucker tone. I have a tele with WRH's and if I could get that tone in a standard humbucker size I think that might work in the 403.

Also, a mini-humbucker in a full-size shell might work, but I'm concerned about both the low-end and the high-end. I have a couple of cheaper archtops with floating mini's and they tend to be both a bit boomy and a bit bright.

[Doctor Jeff]

Not to go off on a tangent, but the EFX HumDebugger worked great for me at taking out P90 ground-level hum related to old wiring, etc. I used it when I got a P90 Godin Kingpin and was living in an older house with knob and post wiring. Without it, the hum was unbearable, but it tamed the buzz perfectly.

If I understand it correctly the HDB echoes a low-level version of the input signal which cancels out the hum, functioning sort of like a traditional humbucking pickup. On the low setting it does not affect the sound very much. Just a thought if you like single-coil pickups.

[dmorash]

There is a seller on ebay who does a humbucker sized Charlie Christian pickup. Reasonably priced, high quality and he does it with the gold cover as well. I had one in my last 403 and liked it a lot. I have a new replacement 403 and will be putting it back in as soon as time permits. They do hang together on the bass notes like a P 90 - they are not as mid focused to my ears but still a big single coil sound. He does not currently have a listing for one (although he has other pickup types including dog eared P 90's if you're feeling adventurous). His seller id is tmm95, you should be able to search it if you want.

[D.G.]

One of my goals is to minimize the amount of gear I have to have between the guitar and the amp. I've tried the EFX HumDebugger but it altered the tone which is not acceptable for me

Again, it's not ONLY humbucker sized, but ACTUAL humbucker. Single coils need not apply

Years ago I tried a Dimarzio Bluesbucker in a hollow body PRS, but it still had that empty/hollow/thuddy sound on the bottom strings.

Keep the ideas coming!

[339 in june]

P94 ?

[spiral]

I've been following your thread, but I thought I'd start my own because I think our criteria might be slightly different

As you should. I just thought some of the suggestions might be worth looking at. The bottom strings are also where i have issues.

TBH i don't necessarily care about how bright or how dark the pickup is. I like a P90 sound. My main issue with humbuckers is the compression, and low end mud. A P90 has a dark sound but still sounds very open to me, not compressed.

At any rate you may like the Lollartron, it still has some grit to it, but still has some compression. It's not as bright as a Filtertron. I'll PM you samples FWIW.

P94 ?

OP needs a humbucker.

[edit]
Nevermind, you disabled PMs. Email me if you are interested in clips.

[D.G.]

My main issue with humbuckers is the compression, and low end mud. A P90 has a dark sound but still sounds very open to me, not compressed.

The compression in humbuckers doesn't really bug me, but the mud sure does, and the Eastman 403 is pretty muddy though my amp. What I like about p90's is the midrange stance. It really helps support the tone on the high strings while letting the low strings have a kind of "toughness" to them and you can still get a pleasant high end presence. I can get usable tones out of the stock humbucker by tuning the bass to 2 and the treble to 3/4 but it's not really an inspiring tone, merely usable.

OTOH, I'm a bit leery of too bright. I have a Lollar Johnny Smith in an Eastman 905 non-cutaway and it's really pretty much unusably bright in that guitar. I plan on removing it at some point and putting in a PUTW instead. So with that experience in mind, I'm fairly cautious about bright Lollar pickups. I play very, very, very hard gypsy style with a thick pick through a bright Fender Princeton RI. I know a p90 works pretty well with my style and equipment, but several places I rehearse/play have really bad power and a single coil is just too noisy.

I'm also considering a much cheaper route and getting a 4-conductor Duncan or Dimarzio and wiring it up in parallel :

[Daniel Kuryliak]

Needs to be an actual humbucker, not just humbucker sized

That's a tough call. There a few single coils out there in a humbucker package, where the magnet (generally
an AlNiCo II is packaged into a humbucker size with the adjustable ears for the height. I've used GFS Mean 90s,
and they sound very close the Gibson P90. but of course the P-90 , by it's large coil size and magnet size,
will give you a different tone profile from pretty much ANY HB out there, that's why they are still so popular
with musicians after all these years. You can't have your cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

There are many reasons for this, but the main reason (IMO), is that the humbucking coil in a ( N-S and S-N)
reverse wound/reverse polarity (RWRP) dual coil arrangement in a humbucker ,will somewhat affect that lower end "bite",
that a P-90 is famous for.

So having a SC in a humbucker package is easily done, but of course you will NOT get hum cancelling effect,
UNLESS you go for for a matched neck/bridge set of HB "P-90s" that are reverse polarity (on the magnet and
reverse wound) as ...in the bridge pup vs the neck pup, and by selecting BOTH on,
the action of the two opposing magnetic field coils inside ...the neck vs the bridge..will give you reasonable noise cancellation.

[Daniel Kuryliak]

OTOH, I'm a bit leery of too bright. I have a Lollar Johnny Smith in an Eastman 905 non-cutaway and it's really pretty much unusably bright in that guitar. I plan on removing it at some point and putting in a PUTW instead. So with that experience in mind, I'm fairly cautious about bright Lollar pickups. I play very, very, very hard gypsy style with a thick pick through a bright Fender Princeton RI. I know a p90 works pretty well with my style and equipment, but several places I rehearse/play have really bad power and a single coil is just too noisy.

I'm also considering a much cheaper route and getting a 4-conductor Duncan or Dimarzio and wiring it up in parallel :

Looked at the model of your guitar, that one is a jazz box with only a neck HB and a floating one I believe.

You are going to have some challenge to get a P-90 into squeezed into that space area. The original P-90
is a much larger pickup with surface mount ears, but the main advantage is that it is basically a flat underside
and if there is enough space from the surface mount to the height of the strings that the strings do not
hit the pole pieces, you should be able to "shoehorn" a real P-90 at the end of the FB.

You would need to measure the available height from the top to the normal spring height.
Now with one pup, you will have hum and that is the problem you want to avoid. But if you run the unbalanced
o/p through a transformer that has an XLR on one end and it changes the high impedance of the pup to a low
impedance signal *ie: around 200 ohms similar to a low impedance mic o/p and then use the same signal
transformer at the amp input, it will cut down the noise and practically eliminate it.
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/298689.html

Of course, you would need TWO of these. One at the guitar end and one at the high impedance amp i/p end.
Using a shielded XLR (3 pin with balanced twisted pair noise cancelling wires and a shield = 3 pins) and
a similar XLR connector..standard microphone cable...it is achievable.

The other way to eliminate noise is go to a suitable preamp (which is a impedance matcher and a signal booster)
and that will eliminate long unbalanced guitar cord runs from the guitar to the preamp.

Les Paul pretty much did the same thing with some of his experimental LP guitars. Gibson was
at one time even selling a LP with low impedance pickups, but it wasn't too popular with musicians
so it was discontinued after a couple of years. It was the Les Paul Professional.

http://www.gould68.freeserve.co.uk/l...he Transformer

[spiral]

There a few single coils out there in a humbucker package [...]
So having a SC in a humbucker package is easily done, but of course you will NOT get hum cancelling effect

OP wants a humbucker.

Looked at the model of your guitar, that one is a jazz box with only a neck HB and a floating one I believe.

Eastman 403 is laminated maple top w/ set in humbucker.

[Daniel Kuryliak]

OP wants a humbucker.


Eastman 403 is laminated maple top w/ set in humbucker.

and I would like to win a million in a lottery..aint gonna happen.

His only choice is try to come up with a HB that has the same characteristics as a P-90 and that would mean
a 4 wire HB and split the coils...so then you are back to hum again.

[jorgemg1984]

I don't think you will find what you're looking for... but talk to Pete at Vintage Vibe, he seems to be able to do anything.

[Daniel Kuryliak]

Turning a HB into a P-90...good luck!

[spiral]

Another one to consider:
http://www.emgpickups.com/products/index/421/296/1

I've been using an H1N (black plastic cover) and it has lots of low end clarity. It's by far the best out of the 10 I've tried (Lollartron is a close 2nd). Email for clips.

[edit]
Strike that. Just got a Bartolini PBF49 and it is even smoother with a very tight low end. You may like it too (or the 55 if you want something even warmer).

[papaj77]

I just picked up an Eastman 403 SB and I'm looking to swap out the pickup. I also have a 371 that I installed a Duncan P-Rails and triple shot switching into, but for the 403 I'm looking for a different solution.

For the 403 I'm looking for the sound of a P90 -- specifically how the bottom strings "snap" -- but in a standard sized noiseless humbucker. And yes, I know it probably can't be done, but I'd be happy with something that was about 85% there. As an example, the sound of the p-rails in parallel would be good enough.

Oh, and the other criteria is a gold cover

I've done a fair amount of research and I'm leaning towards either a Lollartron or a Fralin overwound P-92, but I'm certainly open to other ideas.

Thanks!

How do You like P-Rails? I've been thinking about putting it in my Tele for a while now.

[D.G.]

How do You like P-Rails? I've been thinking about putting it in my Tele for a while now.

It think it's a great pickup. I'd really recommend using the tripe-shot switching system if possible. I had the pickup ring on my Eastman 371 modified with the triple-shot system -- threw away the ring that came with the system and installed the switches in the existing pickup ring -- and I really like it. I don't change settings in the middle of a tune or anything, but if I get to the venue and I find the p90 setting is too noisy, all I need to do is flip the switches and bingo, I have a series wired humbucker It's a brilliant idea.

The P90 is quite powerful and is a P90 The rail pickup is also really hot and strangely enough, I think it's also a good sound for hollowbody guitar. And while I usually use the P90 setting, I also like the parallel sound well enough and it's been a real lifesaver in a couple of situations. For my particular usage I don't find the series sound any good, but it might really work in the bridge position if using a lot of distortion, i.e. like a fuzz.

For a tele in the neck I think it'd be pretty cool. I'm actually thinking of putting one in the bridge position on my main strat.

[D.G.]

Now with one pup, you will have hum and that is the problem you want to avoid. But if you run the unbalanced
o/p through a transformer that has an XLR on one end and it changes the high impedance of the pup to a low
impedance signal *ie: around 200 ohms similar to a low impedance mic o/p and then use the same signal
transformer at the amp input, it will cut down the noise and practically eliminate it.
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/298689.html

An interesting idea! I have a pair of transformers, I'll give it a try tonight with one of my single coil guitars and report back.

[D.G.]

Just got a Bartolini PBF49 and it is even smoother with a very tight low end. You may like it too (or the 55 if you want something even warmer).

I'm a little hesitant to use a humbucker that has no adjustable pole pieces. I always adjust the G string pole way up and the B string pole way down. Still, I look into it as well, thanks!

[papaj77]

It think it's a great pickup. I'd really recommend using the tripe-shot switching system if possible. I had the pickup ring on my Eastman 371 modified with the triple-shot system -- threw away the ring that came with the system and installed the switches in the existing pickup ring -- and I really like it. I don't change settings in the middle of a tune or anything, but if I get to the venue and I find the p90 setting is too noisy, all I need to do is flip the switches and bingo, I have a series wired humbucker It's a brilliant idea.
The P90 is quite powerful and is a P90 The rail pickup is also really hot and strangely enough, I think it's also a good sound for hollowbody guitar. And while I usually use the P90 setting, I also like the parallel sound well enough and it's been a real lifesaver in a couple of situations. For my particular usage I don't find the series sound any good, but it might really work in the bridge position if using a lot of distortion, i.e. like a fuzz.

For a tele in the neck I think it'd be pretty cool. I'm actually thinking of putting one in the bridge position on my main strat.

Thanks, I think I'm gonna have to try it now.

[Jimmy Mack]

And then there is the DeArmond Gold Tone p/up. It's a humbucker. I have used them on solid bodies, and the put a set in my Guild X170 to wake it up, and that it did. I also used a slider switch on a new pickguard to get single or double coil action in the neck position. That was fun.

Today, I put one in the neck spot on my ES 355 to replace a Gibson Classic 57+. I was looking for more snap, brighter tone, I was also considering a P90.

It has added some brightness and articulation to all strings. Nice. But it also brought out more snap, reminding me of a jazz box with a solid wood top. (odd) But, there is always something new to learn and hear!

I have to say: it's not always p/ups that will get you where you want to be. ON my 355, I swapped the stop bar for a lightweight aluminum tailpiece. And, I replaced the brass bridge stud with a stainless steel stud on the bass side. Not difficult, but what an improvement on the bass strings' articulation and clarity. This same trick on the treble side overdid it and it sounded like a solid body guitar then. So, I reverted back to the brass on that side. Very happy with these changes, it may never be over!

[D.G.]

I contacted Lollar with my needs and they said get an Imperial :shrug:

I think I'm going to just get a standard 4-conductor humbucker and wire it up in parallel. All this research with no clear cut answer is giving me option anxiety...