Mambo pedal prototype

**Franz 1997** · 10-03-2013, 10:20 AM

Jon Shaw recently sent me a mambo amp tonestack pedal for evaluation...I thought you gents - and keira- might be interested. I say ''pedal''- it's a footswitchable box, so I guess that qualifies. Anyway, the idea is that in the box there are 2 different tone stack circuits, plus a true bypass; the circuits are the AB763 blackface, and the fender 5E8 Twin. This last one is interesting for amp geeks, 'cos unlike the more popular 5E8-A Twin, it allows you to boost the middle at around 400 hz ( the AB763 is at around 700 hz I think)

This proto works on a wall adapter, but the mk2 version of this will apparently run for 50 hours on a 9v battery, due to some v clever component selection to minimise current draw.

I think this pedal/box differs from some others, eg the Barb eq, in that you have 2 separate tone stacks, which each have their own T/B/M controls, plus gain for each in relation to the bypass.

I have declined to send this gizmo back! I love it - it allows you to take the clankiness off a Norlin 175, allows you to boost the mids on a tele stock pickup, and generally adds much more control of the more guitaristic mid centres frequencies below the amps' stock Ikhz centre. Put another way, it adds huge tonal versatility for those of us who don't always gig with a carved-top.

I don't personally know anything about pedals, being an old fart; my last pedal was an 80s sansamp; but this one now goes in the gig bag.

**rpguitar** · 10-03-2013, 10:28 AM

Wow, looks cool! Does it get any overdrive without high volume? I see that there's a Gain control but no master level, so I'm guessing you can't do that.

Did you reduce the clankiness from that 175 by mounting the pedal on the tailpiece?

**3625** · 10-03-2013, 10:30 AM

That's pretty exciting - does it work as a direct box/analog amp sim?

**Franz 1997** · 10-03-2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Did you reduce the clankiness from that 175 by mounting the pedal on the tailpiece?

Excellent!! Hadn't thought of that....seem to remember some old vega electrics really had boxes on the tailpiece.

Overdrive?? In this forum??? what can you mean.....No, it doesn't do that

**Franz 1997** · 10-03-2013, 10:41 AM

I don't think it's a simulator at all - the tone stack circuits/ components are actually replicated inside the box, so it IS an AB763/ 5E8 tone stack in the signal chain..
------------
still grinning about that rpg clanky 175 crack.....would I do that to a 175

**feet** · 10-03-2013, 11:39 AM

if i'm following, this is a fenderish preamp? as in, you park it in front of your whatever, and it'll give you two flavors of fender clean? that could be neat. especially for those with pretty neutral, clean ss amps.

**robertm2000** · 10-03-2013, 11:55 AM

Any idea what this will cost?

**rpguitar** · 10-03-2013, 12:08 PM

Actually I made that joke because it looks like a bit like the pedal is hanging on the tailpiece in your photo.

The circuit might be "replicated" but obviously using all solid state components, so it's not truly equivalent to the original circuit in the tube amps. Not to detract of course... looks very cool.

**Jazz_175** · 10-03-2013, 01:11 PM

Did you try it in front of a Mambo amp?
If so, what do you get?

**jorgemg1984** · 10-03-2013, 01:11 PM

I will be the next to try apparently, Jon sent me an e-mail this morning

I will compare it to the Barb EQ, which I own and love...

**Jabberwocky** · 10-03-2013, 01:15 PM

Sounds promising. Fender Witch Hat Knobs on a Black Faceplate will complete the look. I wonder if Jon would incorporate a footswitch in place of the toggle to switch between the two tonestacks. Would make more sense for a pedal.

I don't know much about electronics but I find pedals to sound better when you have a healthy amount of current surging through them. Sippers work but tend to sound less robust. Who really uses 9V batteries for pedals anyway? You can't depend on them. But I might be in the minority. Even Pete Cornish makes his pedals without provision for 9V batteries nowadays.

**Franz 1997** · 10-03-2013, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by feet

if i'm following, this is a fenderish preamp? as in, you park it in front of your whatever, and it'll give you two flavors of fender clean? that could be neat. especially for those with pretty neutral, clean ss amps.

That's exactly it, both adjustable - so you can get the fender scooped sound, and the 5E8 fat sound.

**jasonc** · 10-03-2013, 06:32 PM

Oh, now that seems really cool. We need to know what it sounds like in front of a Henriksen, Jorge.

**jorgemg1984** · 10-03-2013, 07:50 PM

Don't worry I will try it with both amps.. I don't think I even tried the Barb EQ with the Mambo... it just sounds so good, it's a crime to use any eq pedal with it

But the Barb EQ / Henriksen is just perfect... I like it more than a blackface vibrolux I play from time to time.

**barrymclark** · 10-03-2013, 08:18 PM

Say! That's very cool! The one thing I really don't like about the actual amps or emulations of them is that you have to be at a certain output level to get the tone you want. If you want louder, you end up with some, for me, unwanted overdrive.

That's the only reason I am considering not staying with the Mesa. But... MAN... does it sound GOOD at that sweet spot.

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 10-03-2013, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I don't know much about electronics but I find pedals to sound better when you have a healthy amount of current surging through them. Sippers work but tend to sound less robust. Who really uses 9V batteries for pedals anyway? You can't depend on them. But I might be in the minority. Even Pete Cornish makes his pedals without provision for 9V batteries nowadays.

A 12AX7 tube in a Fender-type amplifier draws about 1 mA ...

**3625** · 10-03-2013, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I wonder if Jon would incorporate a footswitch in place of the toggle to switch between the two tonestacks. Would make more sense for a pedal.

Totally agree - that would definitely come in handy for changing volume levels between comping and soloing.

I have the 'Ethos Overdrive' pedal which is similar - in that you can use it in front of a flat response amp like an Acoustic Image and make the tone more like a Fender or thereabouts - it's marketed as a Dumble emulator. I only use the clean channel and I'm very happy with it - very good, high spec piece of kit. Basically a fully featured two channel guitar amp preamp, which can also go direct for recording:

Mambo pedal prototype-ethos-jpg

Given that I've heard great things about Mambo amps, this new pedal sounds really cool - apart from the Ethos, there's nothing else I know of that does this in terms of a clean tone - if it could go direct like the Ethos that would be hip - so you could gig straight into the p.a. or record straight into the desk/audio interface.

**feet** · 10-03-2013, 11:30 PM

if the price point is right, i might look into this one. have had problems in the past with fenderish amps and have used voxes ever since. which isn't exactly a "traditional jazz" amp, as i don't need to tell you. this might be neat in front of that. at the very least, i'd love to try something like this with the jc77 if i can get a similar tone from that. i'd be happy plop one of these in front of the jc77 and call it day. it would free up a lot of floor space, too. and all the guys out there that can play any old dumpy clean solid state amp bought for peanuts and still get a pretty sound with one of these would be happy, too.

i briefly considered the ethos (and the blackbird preamp) but they seem like overkill since i don't want the distorted tones and they are very expensive. sometimes i think i may as well save up and get an amp at that point.

so i'll wait for clips info and pricing to be announced. curious now.

**Jazz_175** · 10-03-2013, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

But the Barb EQ / Henriksen is just perfect... I like it more than a blackface vibrolux I play from time to time.

When you say you try pedals with the Henriksen, don't you use a Henriksen head? (if I remember correctly).
If so, which speakers do you use?
If you are not using the Eminence Beta speakers that the JazzAmp originally carries, the sound you get, without pedals in front, is not already quite different from the original Henriksen combo?

**3625** · 10-03-2013, 11:49 PM

Feet - I just googled the blackbird - very cool - seems pretty much like a tube version of the Ethos. Saw it advertised for $479. Considering the versatility it offers, such as direct recording etc. I think that's a fair price. What I like about the Ethos (even though it's pricey for a pedal), is that it actually does what it's supposed to - no weird noises, clean signal path, tone is true and clear etc. Obviously this Mambo pedal would be in the same league based off the amp reviews.

Jim Hall's 80's/90's? rig was pretty hip: IIRC he had a Harry Kolbe custom made single rack space tube preamp, which went direct into the power amp section of a Walter Woods solid state guitar amp (which was a preamp/power amp without a speaker that fit into a little briefcase). So Jim's rig was this super hip, uber custom setup - D'Aquisto laminate with DeArmond (yeah!) into the Kolbe preamp into the Wood's power amp - super clean, high quality signal chain!

Considering I like my Ethos so much, I'm going to look into the Blackbird a bit more...

**feet** · 10-04-2013, 12:01 AM

i'm not doubting the ethos and blackbird are worth it, and i'm not saying they aren't priced fairly. they're just not cheap. and not too common, so you won't see many used ones or ones in stores to try. i'd have love to give the black bird a shot. also, they seem kinda big. i know they need the space and they do a lot, but they aren't too pedal board friendly. but one of these in front of my ac4hw would give me some neat options, too, in a compact grab and go format.

the ethos sounds pretty clean, but i'm really not a "dumble sound" guy at all, so a lot of its point/value is wasted on me. gave me enough pause for the gas to subside. but again, i've never tried one. that could change.

**3625** · 10-04-2013, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Richb

I dont get it (as usual).
Why not just get an eq pedal or two and you'd have everything the box above has and more?

Well unlike someone like Jorge, I'm not a tech guy in terms of knowing what's what in terms of eq measurement - but with something like the Ethos which is voiced as a 'guitar' pedal, I do notice more 'oomph' in terms of gain and overall thickness of tone (talking clean channel) - than I imagine I could get just by tweaking a really good eq. - I could be way off the mark there, as I've never tried the Barber EQ and such - but I like the idea of a pedal/preamp etc. like the Ethos, or this new Mambo, where the 'sound' is there already, and you just tweak the eq accordingly, instead of building the tone yourself from scratch.

**Philco** · 10-04-2013, 02:27 AM

This is just great! So now I can use my Empress Para EQ to dial OUT the nasty Fender frequencies in my Deluxe Reverb so it sounds like my Mambo and when I use the Mambo amp I can use this new pedal to dial IN the nasty frequency so it sounds like my Deluxe Reverb!

I've got it covered

**3625** · 10-04-2013, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Philco

This is just great! So now I can use my Empress Para EQ to dial OUT the nasty Fender frequencies in my Deluxe Reverb so it sounds like my Mambo and when I use the Mambo amp I can use this new pedal to dial IN the nasty frequency so it sounds like my Deluxe Reverb!

I've got it covered

There's many a true word spoken in jest

- as was mentioned by someone earlier, these preamp pedals are good for transforming the tone of a cheap old solid state amp. My sitch atm is that I've got an old jazz chorus 60 - very bright, brittle sounding amp, you can roll all the treble off and get the traditional 'dark' tone, but anything beyond that and it sounds painful. However (you see where this is going lol), use one of these preamp pedals and it's a new amp tonally.

I'm due for an upgrade over the next few months anyway, and I've been grappling with which direction to take - Henriksen/Mambo portable solid state, or a nice little valve combo? yada yada, same ol' s. Anyway this thread got me thinking, so I just did some googling. There's a new portable guitar power amp called the 'stealth' by ISP - seems pretty good.

Potential idea for uber portable jazz amplification:

1/ preamp - Mambo pedal/Ethos/Blackbird etc.
2/ poweramp - ISP Stealth
3/ cab - for example DV Mark do one with a single 12" neo speaker - lightweight

The advantage of this type of rig is that the preamp and poweramp can go in a backpack/shoulder bag, while you carry the neo speaker cab in one hand and your axe in the other. That way your arm and wrist isn't all stressed out from carrying an amp in one hand down a street, then up two flights of stairs. Anyone tried a rig like this or something similar? (Jim Soloway?)

**jorgemg1984** · 10-04-2013, 05:32 AM

So... lots of people to reply.

I have never tried the Ethos or the Blackbird... they seem too expensive to what they do. I can sure everyone here the Barb EQ is AWESOME and much cheaper than those two. I bet the Mambo will be too!!

I got curious with some of the suggestions here and will discuss them with Jon. I think a xlr line out with speaker emulation (a simpler GCS-2 incorporated) and a small FV1 reverb (equal to the mambo) with two controls would make the pedal perfect... the ethos has speaker simulation but none of these pedals has built-in reverb - which is both mandatory and easy to do these days, imho. I also think having a mid control similar to the Barb EQ would be great, let's see how the mid knob works on the Mambo pedal.

Jazz175 - I use an Henriksen head trough a big EV cab or trough a Mambo 10 with a Beta... the last one is sort of close to the Henriksen cab but with much better dispersion. Jzucker has used the Barbeq in front of an Henriksen combo with great results, he has clips in youtube. It takes a sterile amp (imho) into a very lively one...

Richb - there are three potential uses for an eq pedal in my experience: tone shaper, warmer or "toneprint" (and combinations). That's why the need for several eq pedals... I have a parametric eq with two bands. I could achieve a blackface or a tweed sound if I had the patience to study center frequencies / bandwidth etc... and still my parametric eq is very transparent which something like the Barb EQ is not. The Barb EQ is both a warmer and a toneprint... the parametric eq could you the same frequency response of a fender but not the tube warm vibe. But it's excellent when I get a good fender amp but I wish to boost low mids and cut low mids because it does not mess with the amp's tone.

Another thing - using these pedals as "toneprints" is a good idea into flat amps like the Henriksen or the Mambo. A JC77 is not a flat amp as far as I know... in this case using just a warmer would be the best idea I think.

I have not enjoyed using these pedals in front of a power amp... and it's not that light to have eq pedal / reverb pedal / power amp / cab... My solution was getting an Henriksen head and usint it basically as a power amp with a preamp input. Got an fx loop, opa2134 on the preamp, byoc reverb 2 instead of the stock reverb, a 9v out to feed the barb eq and some velcro on top of the head to have the barbeq permanet there... all I need is a cab and I have an amazing fender sound at my disposal

I know not an easy rig but I cannot think of a better rig (and it was cheap because I got the Henriksen head for a great price)