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I generally use a SS amp for the straight ahead sound, which
is the bulk of what I do, but I can really only get the crunch
and dirty sounds with a valve amp and another guitar.
It would be a big saving in transport weight if I could use
one cab for both. I've read up on this, and most people
suggest getting a Radial Tonebone AB pedal. I guess
the thinking is based on the fact that a valve amp
needs to see a load - ie be connected when it's on.
Is this the case when the master and volume controls
are set to minimum, and the amp is on stand by?
It wouldn't be a big headache to connect a couple of leads
and flick a switch between numbers if that was the case.
Not an experiment I'm willing to do without advice!
The tonebone is 250 quid! My EV's are heavy! Thanks for any
ideas.
Jamie
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07-29-2013 10:39 AM
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I think this is the pedal they are talking about.
Tonebone Headbone amp head switcher - the development of the Headbone
Also be careful they make three models one for tube amps, one for SS amps, and third for mixing tube and SS.Last edited by docbop; 07-29-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Yep - those are they. I have the Radial ABY to do switching between different
guitars or amps - I know they make good gear - I'm just asking if there's
a cheaper or simpler way of using two amps separately into one cab.
Suddenly, £250 seems a lot.. I guess an alternative is to power down
the valve amp, switch it on when I need it, having connected the
speaker lead from the other amp to the valve O/P. People may
say tho' "this guy looks like a cheapskate!".
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Depending on the wattage of your amps, could you just buy a pair of power resistors from an electronics shop and wire them into a switch? When I was in college I used a setup that had a pair of 15 watt, 15 ohm resistors wired to a simple switch - it wired the resistors across the output of the non-used amp and supposedly provided a proper load for it. I never used an amp with audio current actually flowing to it - the switch saw to that. I know that resistors are made in carious sizes to absorb power, and some of them are the ind used in a power soak. I would think that one of those placed across the speaker output of your amp would work.
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I own and use a headbone...it's awesome...made in Canada!!
I bought it used from long and mcquade for 180 bucks. Love Canadian products of all types, especially our maple syrup..oh god.
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I see there are a few on EBay, I guess seecond hand might be a
possibility if the DIY thing doesn't work out. My main guitar is
a Godin LGX-SA and I use Radial to DI/Reamp. I have Canadian
friends who you could bet your life on, but the syrup I find
a bit sickly..
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Thanks for the electronics advice, Robert!
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I have Micro Terror and another H&B CG 10C, both added in a DIY cab with Eminence inside. Dual Combo! Great stuff...
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Great weight saving idea Mikey! My cabinet making skills wouldn't be up to that..
My current thinking (was) - ask one of the amp tech chaps I go to, to see if
he could build me a simple switcher box. Here were my specs:
Inputs: 1/4" speaker cables from both amps, Output: 1/4" speaker cable to cab.
Switch position 1: Output from SS amp to cab; Output from Valve amp muted,
but under load. Switch position 2: Output from Valve amp to cab; output from
SS amp muted.
He's still thinking about it. It occurs to me that the reason the Headbone is
expensive, is that in this configuration, you need to have the active valve amp
loaded at all times to save the input transformer etc. If the two signals share
a common path, you'll have two outputs connected. Connecting two outputs
will blow the fuses (or worse!) - so it wouldn't be a simple device. A solution
for me might be to use a splitter (I have a Radial ABY Bigshot) working in
reverse, and just toggle between the two inputs (= separate outputs).
I'd need to switch to the other input (output!) for the valve amp, with it
powered down and then switch it onto standby and then on. It would
be probably be a good idea to tape over the button marked BOTH.
This also requires a precise degree of operation and concentration
which is sometimes elsewhere at a gig! So - a logical (but not
idiot-proof) solution!
Jamie
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The Headbone is the solution. Experiment with something gerry-rigged and you could be replacing the OT on your tube amp.
Originally Posted by VitalSigns
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Well it's not really about experiment. If you connect a tube amp to the cab,
switch it to standby + on, and then after you've finished switch it to standby
and off, that's fine. Would I trust myself to do that at a gig, and reconnect
another amp in between numbers? That's another experiment.
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Thinking about it, I guess the ABY may not be suitable to handle
the output of an amp, so it's either the Headbone or a manual connect/
disconnect with power off. Might cramp my style a bit - like when
Chuck Berry would do a ballad and say "just be little pause while we
have to tune the boxes down (up!) a bit for this next number.."
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Getting an amp able to do both things is by far the simplest solution... Shouldn't be hard specially if you're willing to use pedals.
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I find the overdriven sound I get from the SS amp and the straight ahead
sound I get from the tube amp are too much of a compromise. I can
use the Godin with the SD Jazz p/u for the O/D sound or the Les Paul
for the clean sound, but the sound I want seems to work perfectly
the other way round. It's taken a long time to get to the point where
I like my sound after much experiment, so I guess it's worth looking at
a solution which will save my back and the suspension on the car. Still
curious what the amp guy will come up with.
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But it's a gig that evolves jazz and rock? Or is it always jazz that sometimes needs a fusion-type sound? Taking two guitars and two amps would be something I would only in REALLY important gigs or something with roadies.
I care more about clean sound and my two archtops with SS amps (henriksen with barb eq pedal or mambo) give ma a very good clean sound. I can build an OD or distortion base with pedals then and it sounds quite good (to me)... I use a very modded TS or RAT into an RC Booster. I would probably get a better sound with more amps / guitars but not worth it...
Modelling could also be a good option for you.Last edited by jorgemg1984; 07-31-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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I absolutely agree about the transport thing - you're not going to take all
your gear out for a hole in the wall/postage stamp stand gig, or even for
most rehearsals, but it's not much more hassel to take an additional head
or a solid in a gig bag - obviously I'm talking about places you can drive to.
The distortions I have are a SD Twin Tube; a Magicstomp and an Ibanez
Tubescreamer. I generally use the Twin with the SS amp to fatten up the
sound, but it doesn't distort well. Did you ever use the distortion on
a Polytone or Peterson? That's what I mean. Most of the stuff I do
sits well with the clean sound, but maybe it's middle-age rebellion or
just wanting my total sound available. Modelling? Been there. I still have
a DG80. I gave the big one to my nephew, I grew to hate the sound..
I remember reading somewhere that the great Martin Drew used to haul
out his huge Pearl kit (20" Kick, 16" Tom etc) to little gigs where he was
backing singers and mainly using brushes. Inspiring, that.
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I like the OD sounds I get with my Henriksen and Mambo (both close to the amps you have mentioned). The trick for me was using my od pedals with an rc booster... sounds very good. But I mean Rosenwinkel OD sounds (he used a RAT into a Polytone for years)... What ss amp are you using, Ameson with an EV right? I think with the right pedals you must be able to get both a great clean and dirtorted sound out of it.
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OK Jorge, I'll give the other distortions a go with the Ameson, but it
sounds sort of honky with the SD Lead setting.
Jamie
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Have you tried a real tube overdrive pedal with your SS amp?? I have (coincidentally) A ToneBone TriMode, which gives you two different settings, and it sounds fabulous, but there are a lot of different brands. Originally Posted by VitalSigns
Tonebone Trimode tube distortion - introduction (they also make a single "channel")
Ibanez TK999OD Tube King Overdrive Pedal at zZounds
HT-Drive Review | Blackstar | Guitar Effects | Reviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com (they also make a dual "channel")
SFX-03 Twin Tube Classic Review | Seymour Duncan | Guitar Effects | Reviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
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Another option is to buy a Pearce SS amp, which can give loud crisp cleans, AND creamy distortion ala Holdsworth, and anything in between.
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You're happy with the Ameson clean sound right? The cleans are the hardest. if the cleans are good i would try as many OD pedals / settings as possible until I found one that sounded right. I am sure one will sound good... and you'll have a much simpler rig!! That's what I would do anyway Originally Posted by VitalSigns
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Actually, I tried the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Overdrive on the (both tubes)
Lead setting with the Les Paul and the SS amp. The sound is a more modern
overdrive than with the tube amp, but it sounded OK. I'll have an experiment
with it. I hadn't used the Gibson with the Ameson really before, but it might be
worth a try. I prefer the 490R pickup for distortion over the Godin which also
has heavier strings than the LP. It would certainly be easier to just take another
guitar which I could leave in situ via the ABY pedal. And take out the whole rig if I
ever get a big enough gig to warrant it! Thanks for the ideas.
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Hope you end up with a good solution, keep us posted.
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