Practice Amp

[jnbrown]

Thanks for the review, ooglybong.

My only concern is with longevity of the THR10 with all its surface-mount components and all. If it can last ten years of daily practice, I will be a happy puppy.

I don't know. The OP says "high quality electronics, speakers and enclosure materials". And then he also says, "$200. "

I am getting the THR10X because I like the green enclosure and setting it at Flat or Clean only.

I am an Electrical Engineer. Everything we design and build is surface mount and that is what everything is these days including iphones, computers, etc. We use it in ruggedized military products. As long as you are not dropping it on the floor I wouldn't worry about it. There will always be a tiny number of units that have a manufacturing defect but again I wouldn't worry.

[ooglybong]

I am an Electrical Engineer. Everything we design and build is surface mount and that is what everything is these days including iphones, computers, etc. We use it in ruggedized military products. As long as you are not dropping it on the floor I wouldn't worry about it. There will always be a tiny number of units that have a manufacturing defect but again I wouldn't worry.

Huh. I don't know diddly about the construction, but I will say that the THR seems quite solid, IMO. Super-light, sure, but solidly built. The handle on top also kind of acts like a "roll bar" if you will, so falling over on its top should be OK, too, should that ever happen. One thing with its light weight that I have been doing, though: If I ever leave it plugged in and on top of something, say overnight, I'm also careful to pull the power cord out of the back so that nobody (i.e., my two boxers) could accidentally trip over the cord and take it down. Sure, it's solid, but still, right? (WOOF, WOOF!)

[jnbrown]

I am NOT an electrical engineer although EE was my original declared major. Surface-mounted electronics are almost impossible or uneconomical and difficult to repair when they go on the fritz, aren't they? Not for a component costing under $300 with proprietary surface-mount chips. Special soldering equipment is required to solder these damn little thingies.

Second, my Playstation 3 went on the fritz after 2 years. I live in a humid climate and when I stripped the damn thing apart, the metal parts were rusted. I don't think the Yamaha THR10 with surface-mount components will last very long in high humidity. Those PCB tracks or tightly spaced solder joints are likely to form "dendrites" and short out unless Yamaha has specially coated the PCB to prevent that. I suspect I will be lucky to get 3 years use out of it, truth be known.

Like I said EVERYTHING is surface mount these days. Yes anybody who works on or repairs electronics would have the equipment to replace surface mount components. Some years ago lead was phased out of solder so now all solder is lead free. Because of this the solder joints are not quite as strong and as you said with humidity corrosion can occur. One way to prevent this is with conformal coating. You would have to disassemble the unit and spray a coating like polyurethane on the circuit boards while masking all of the connection points. We do this on products that are going to be subjected to high humidity and condensation and when the customer requires it. I don't think there is any way around this no matter what amp you buy be it Yamaha or any other brand. I think you might be over estimating the problem, if the amp is in your house I wouldn't think the humidity is that high unless you live in the jungle and have no doors and windows.

[jnbrown]

I am wondering if it would make any sense to buy a cheaper amp and upgrade the speaker.
For example the Peavy Vyper 30 that I think I liked has a 12" speaker.
Since the whole amp is $200 I can't imagine they spent much on the speaker.
In fact the Vyper 30 head without the speaker is only $10 less in price.
I have been reading how great the Celestion V30 speaker is.
For $145 I could get one and put it in the Vyper cabinet. Not sure if the 30 Watts would be enough to drive it well though.

[newsense]

Thanks for the review I'll probably pick one up in a few days.

Be sure to try out both the THR10 and the THR10C. I have the latter, allegedly based on a number of classic vintage amps - hence no metal or heavy rock settings, unlike the THR10, which is probably more versatile. The sounds on the THR10C are remarkable, not least being the "Deluxe" setting, modelled on (surprise, surprise) a Deluxe Reverb. My only complaint is that I cannot connect the "line/headphones out" to anything, other than headphones, without getting an audible whistle - possible due to an earth loop. So I have not succeeded in pushing it through a giggable power amp or PA. So it really is a practice amp !

[newsense]

^^ Sounds like I would have gigs to go to if it were louder - sadly not !

[jnbrown]

I think I am leaning towards a Tech21 Trademark 60.
I can get used one in the $300 to $400 range and it seems on paper to have the features I want.
Would like the smaller 30 but it gets poor reviews.
I won't be able to try it out so going on blind faith.

[ooglybong]

I have the Tech 21 Power Engine, essentially a 60-watt powered speaker cabinet. It's surprisingly light-weight and about tops for what *I'd* consider purely as a "practice amp" size (even though I do use it for light-to-medium scale gigging, running my Mustang Floor thru it with great results).

On the day I bought my Power Engine, they also happened to have a Trademark 60 on hand. I tried it, but I really wasn't that impressed with it tonally (even though I'm aware that many give it rave reviews). However, more to the point of this thread, I also came away thinking that it was actually rather larger and heavier compared to its 'little brother', the Power Engine. In short, the Trademark 60 seemed to me to be more in the "gigging" amp category and not quite a "practice" amp. IMO and YMMV.

Of course, that being said, I suppose that one can use anything to "practice" through, but you did originally say that you wanted something "not too large or heavy" so I've been thinking smallish here...

[jnbrown]

I have the Tech 21 Power Engine, essentially a 60-watt powered speaker cabinet. It's surprisingly light-weight and about tops for what *I'd* consider purely as a "practice amp" size (even though I do use it for light-to-medium scale gigging, running my Mustang Floor thru it with great results).

On the day I bought my Power Engine, they also happened to have a Trademark 60 on hand. I tried it, but I really wasn't that impressed with it tonally (even though I'm aware that many give it rave reviews). However, more to the point of this thread, I also came away thinking that it was actually rather larger and heavier compared to its 'little brother', the Power Engine. In short, the Trademark 60 seemed to me to be more in the "gigging" amp category and not quite a "practice" amp. IMO and YMMV.

Of course, that being said, I suppose that one can use anything to "practice" through, but you did originally say that you wanted something "not too large or heavy" so I've been thinking smallish here...

I appreciate your feedback. Yeah I am kind of torn between something that is a real amp with a 12" speaker vs a lunchbox.
I think of more interest to me now is an old Yamaha G50-112 which I have heard really good things about for jazz and there are some used ones that are very inexpensive under $200. But it is rather large and heavy, about 40 lbs and I have a bad back. I was hoping to have something I could move between a bedroom and family room so this would require putting wheels on it. The Peavy Vyper 30 I was interested in weighs 33 lbs so not much better. I think i am going to try out a Yamaha THR10 but I don't have high hopes for it, maybe I will be surprised.

[ooglybong]

I appreciate your feedback. Yeah I am kind of torn between something that is a real amp with a 12" speaker vs a lunchbox.

Hmm. So do you really want a "practice" amp -or- a more of a small amp for general usage? Just trying to help here...

I think of more interest to me now is an old Yamaha G50-112 which I have heard really good things about for jazz and there are some used ones that are very inexpensive under $200. But it is rather large and heavy, about 40 lbs and I have a bad back. I was hoping to have something I could move between a bedroom and family room so this would require putting wheels on it.

Purely by coincidence, I also happen to own a Yamaha G100-112 combo. *Excellent* jazz tone and much, much better than the Tech 21 Trademark 60, IMO. It's about 46 lbs (the 50 watt version does spec at about 40 lbs) but they have thin, somewhat sharp-edged handles that make the weight seem like it's a lot more to be dealing with. (Gotta get that changed out sometime.) Like you, I have a bad back, and the Yamaha is definitely not something that I'd want to be moving between various rooms on a regular basis. (Casters are in its future, too!) IMO, the Yamaha is definitely more in the "gigging" amp category than the "practice" amp category although, as I've already said, one can surely practice though anything of any size and weight at all.

I think i am going to try out a Yamaha THR10 but I don't have high hopes for it, maybe I will be surprised.

IF you want light weight and a set of very nice tones for practicing (along with a ton of extra potential as a USB recording interface, etc.), I'd highly recommend you checking out the THR series. Yeah, I think that you will be surprised.

Oh, yeah... Then maybe buy that Yamaha G50-112 as a great-sounding gigging amp, too!

[docbop]

Be sure to try out both the THR10 and the THR10C. I have the latter, allegedly based on a number of classic vintage amps - hence no metal or heavy rock settings, unlike the THR10, which is probably more versatile. The sounds on the THR10C are remarkable, not least being the "Deluxe" setting, modelled on (surprise, surprise) a Deluxe Reverb. My only complaint is that I cannot connect the "line/headphones out" to anything, other than headphones, without getting an audible whistle - possible due to an earth loop. So I have not succeeded in pushing it through a giggable power amp or PA. So it really is a practice amp !

I went and tried out the THR10 and passed on it. The volume wasn't quite what I expected and it started to break up trying to get more. I also didn't like the lack of control on the effects, sure lots of effects but pretty much on or off no level control. The reverb was swimming like Dick Dale. The tone stack was nice and I could get a good clean sound, but anyone in the store playing anything was drowning me out.

So I ended up going with my first idea and got a used Line6 POD HD for a little more. So figure I will use headphones other times use a small powered recording monitor. So gives me lots of options.

So the Yamaha was nice, but not for me.

[jnbrown]

Any thoughts on Bugera V5 or V22?
This amp thing seems like a bottomless pit.

[ooglybong]

I went and tried out the THR10 and passed on it. The volume wasn't quite what I expected and it started to break up trying to get more. I also didn't like the lack of control on the effects, sure lots of effects but pretty much on or off no level control. The reverb was swimming like Dick Dale. The tone stack was nice and I could get a good clean sound, but anyone in the store playing anything was drowning me out.

So I ended up going with my first idea and got a used Line6 POD HD for a little more. So figure I will use headphones other times use a small powered recording monitor. So gives me lots of options.

So the Yamaha was nice, but not for me.

I can certainly understand your comments re the FX but, in my experience, in my living room used solely as a practice amp, there's a bit more control than that. There are level nuances on tap but given the smaller range of travel on the one dial, they're admittedly difficult to dial in. Dedicated depth controls would've been great but, FWIW, I can get a mix I like via the knobs if I'm really careful.

From what I've read, the amp was supposedly created to deliver the sound of a great "recorded and produced" tonality but at lower-than-previously-attained volume levels, and in this I think they've largely succeeded. Competing with the din down at the the local GC was never the point with this (practice) amp, so I'm not surprised that you got drowned out. Still, it can get surprisingly loud in the relative quiet of your living room. I get mine pretty loud and haven't even cranked the level all the way yet. No need to.

Good luck with the Line6 POD HD, though. I've heard some really great things about that!

[ooglybong]

Be sure to try out both the THR10 and the THR10C. I have the latter, allegedly based on a number of classic vintage amps - hence no metal or heavy rock settings, unlike the THR10, which is probably more versatile. The sounds on the THR10C are remarkable, not least being the "Deluxe" setting, modelled on (surprise, surprise) a Deluxe Reverb. My only complaint is that I cannot connect the "line/headphones out" to anything, other than headphones, without getting an audible whistle - possible due to an earth loop. So I have not succeeded in pushing it through a giggable power amp or PA. So it really is a practice amp !

Hmm. Out of curiosity, I just put my THR-10 thru my Tech 21 Power Engine and got zero noise out of it (past what I should have been hearing, of course!). This was using a regular guitar cable with both the THR and Tech 21 plugged into the same power strip. Possibly you might have a bad cable or some other grounding issue.

[newsense]

Hmm. Out of curiosity, I just put my THR-10 thru my Tech 21 Power Engine and got zero noise out of it (past what I should have been hearing, of course!). This was using a regular guitar cable with both the THR and Tech 21 plugged into the same power strip. Possibly you might have a bad cable or some other grounding issue.

Thanks, I'll keep trying with the power amp variations at my disposal - maybe I'll switch of the PC which is using the same mains circuit !

[newsense]

Any thoughts on Bugera V5 or V22?
This amp thing seems like a bottomless pit.

Hey, I get to comment on this one as well, as I have a Bugera V22 as well as a THR10C !.

You will read a lot of good and bad about the V22 on various forums. The bad comments mainly come from contributors who have never played one and are based on (i) the relationship between Bugera and Behringer, (ii) they are made in China, and (iii) they are a third the price of a Fender DRRI but with a higher spec, therefore must be made from corn flakes boxes.

I have played mine for about 3 years and really have nothing to complain about. I have changed all the tubes for a mix of JJ and Tung-Sol, but to be honest there was little change in tone, suggesting the stock Bugera tubes are really OK. Mine was one of the original release, which had a slight design fault - the voltage regulator for the foot switch circuit had an oversensitive thermal cut-out which would kick-in after an hour if both reverb and gain channels were selected on the footswitch. I added a 50p heat-sink which cured the it; the more recent versions do not have that problem.

It does everything I want. It has a great clean sound, that can be tweaked with the EQ to give a variety of clean options, including good jazz tones. I now use it with a Carl Martin Opto compressor in front which seems to add some "je ne sais quoi" and a TC Hall of Fame reverb in the FX loop, simply to get more options than the built in reverb, which of itself is not bad. Does it sound like a Deluxe Reverb ? Possibly - but I don't know as I have never had the chance to compare. But, it does have fullness, sparkle and complexity to the clean tone that most people wouldn't believe could come from a sub-£300 amp (or one even twice that price). The gain channel is also good, but perhaps more of an acquired taste. With humbuckers you get a thick soupy overdrive even at quite low gain settings; the "on the edge of break-up" sound is quite difficult to get except with an appropriate pedal through the clean channel. Maybe if I just cranked the clean channel I could get that "edge-of" sound, but I would have to move neighbourhoods first ! So yes, it is plenty loud enough, but can also be controlled nicely at "bedroom" levels, especially if you put a volume pedal in the FX loop.

The only caveat to the above, is that I have never gigged this amp. I only use it in my apartment. Nevertheless, I have dismantled it a couple of times and can confirm that there is nothing obviously wrong with the build quality. Yes, it's based on a PCB and the cabinet is Baltic pine ply, but what do you expect for <£300 ! You will struggle to find a tube amp with as complete a specification as the V22 for anywhere near the price.

I keep looking to replace it, simply because I'm almost embarrassed to rely on an amp that cost so little, but so far I haven't found anything even at twice the price that ticks all the same boxes.

The V5 spec is not as complete (fewer EQ options, no FX loop) and is really aimed at those wanting to get a fully-cranked amp tone at low volume. It is certainly not as good value as the V22.

[newsense]

I went and tried out the THR10 and passed on it. The volume wasn't quite what I expected and it started to break up trying to get more. I also didn't like the lack of control on the effects, sure lots of effects but pretty much on or off no level control. The reverb was swimming like Dick Dale.

I agree that the effects lack control from the front panel, but plug it into a PC and you can edit the FX in great detail, just like on your POD HD, although you can't change the order around.

[jnbrown]

Just heard from Roland they have new series of Cubes, 40GX and 80GX.
They said that might explain why haven't been able to find a 40XL to demo.
Won't be hitting the stores until July, depending on when and if not sure I'll wait for it.
This straight from Roland:

Yes, there has been improvements actually. They not only changed the speaker to one that's more efficient at higher volume levels, they also changed the overall cabinet design. (The CUBE-40GX is slightly taller, yet thinner than the XL).
We got little "preview" of them today here in Product Support, and they all sound great. Quite an improvement over the "XL" versions.
We're pretty critical in here obviously, but we were actually very impressed.

[jnbrown]

I went and tried out the THR10 and passed on it. The volume wasn't quite what I expected and it started to break up trying to get more. I also didn't like the lack of control on the effects, sure lots of effects but pretty much on or off no level control. The reverb was swimming like Dick Dale. The tone stack was nice and I could get a good clean sound, but anyone in the store playing anything was drowning me out.

So I ended up going with my first idea and got a used Line6 POD HD for a little more. So figure I will use headphones other times use a small powered recording monitor. So gives me lots of options.

So the Yamaha was nice, but not for me.

So I went to GC today to try out the THR10. Luckily I found a quiet room to play in.
I agree a lot with Docbop about the effects, very difficult to adjust and I thought the sound was very boxy and my wife agreed.
I prefer a more open sound which I think can only be acheived with a 10 inch or larger speaker.
I thought the volume was plenty loud enough but the sound quality just wasn't there for me.
I am sure if you want something very small and portable then maybe this is as good as it gets.
Since this will be my only amp I want something more to my liking.
Since they did not have any Cube 40s I asked if they had something similar to try out and they suggested the Peavy Vyper which I had tried at another store. With all the racket it was hard to do much with it but I could tell it still sounded pretty nice as it did before and for $200 I still think it is worthwhile. I am still intrigued by the Yamaha G50 but at 40 lbs it isn't as practical as some other options and being quite old it could break and that would be the end. I think I am going to take a break and wait for the Cube 40GX to hit the stores next month. If the sound is improved as Roland says it might be the one.