1953 Gibson ES-175 Some questions....

[vic]

Q 1....A 1953 ES-175 should have gold barrel control knobs. This example has black ones. I've read somewhere that black knobs have been used on certain Gibson guitars during that period....any experience of this ?

Q2.....Note the discoloured Gibson logo....quite unusual or is it not ?

The reason I ask is I may want to buy this but am not entirely sure of the authenticity of the knobs and the discoloration of the logo.

The tailpiece looks to be a replacement....?

[rpguitar]

Looks completely normal, with caveats that the tailpiece and knobs have been replaced.

The logo inlay shows very typical cracking/discoloration due to age and wear. You can see many old Gibsons with that kind of inlay wear if you look at photos online.

[mr. beaumont]

Think it's just in shadow...kind of a backlit thing going on there...

[vic]

Yes...just bad lighting at the 1 st fret.
Of course the guitar needs an extensive clean up as well

[vic]

Looks completely normal, with caveats that the tailpiece and knobs have been replaced.

The logo inlay shows very typical cracking/discoloration due to age and wear. You can see many old Gibsons with that kind of inlay wear if you look at photos online.

Hi Roger, do you think those black knobs are legit or not ?

[wintermoon]

the lacquer that was sprayed onto the guitar @ the factory has yellowed over time and has chipped off of the logo and the crown inlay, pretty common.

t.p. replaced, knobs replaced [you'll see stock black knobs on some black beauty Les Pauls in the 50's]
looks like the guitar may be stuffed w/something to prevent feedback, or it's just in the pic

board inlays have grime on top of grime, the 1st fret looks pretty worn, some jack cracking [common on 175's]

[rpguitar]

I was about to joke with you that they are indeed legit black knobs, just not original to the guitar. Then I checked the famous cfh website and he notes that black speed knobs were used in some cases beginning in '53.

However, I have not personally seen a 50's ES-175 of any shade with those knobs. Go to images.google.com and look around; you won't see any either. I would probably replace them with gold ones.

Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson collecting vintage gibson guitars

"Bottom row black knobs, left to right: depending on the color of the guitar, some models starting in the early 1950's used black versions of the above gold knobs. These correspond to the same years as the above gold versions.

[vic]

I was about to joke with you that they are indeed legit black knobs, just not original to the guitar. Then I checked the famous cfh website and he notes that black speed knobs were used in some cases beginning in '53.

However, I have not personally seen a 50's ES-175 of any shade with those knobs. Go to images.google.com and look around; you won't see any either. I would probably replace them with gold ones.

Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson collecting vintage gibson guitars

"Bottom row black knobs, left to right: depending on the color of the guitar, some models starting in the early 1950's used black versions of the above gold knobs. These correspond to the same years as the above gold versions.

That is exactly what prompted my question re. the black knobs.

[vic]

Those black speed knobs look new. You would expect the clear plastic to have yellowed by now. The tailpiece also looks shiny new. These parts are not vintage, not that there is anything wrong with that.

And that pillow stuffing. If you do not want it in there, can it be extracted easily?

I looked at the four 1953 ES-175s sold here, taking their descriptions at face value:

1953 Gibson ES-175DN

1953 Gibson ES-175

1953 Gibson ES-175

1953 Gibson ES-175D .

Interesting to compare them with your find.

Thanks Jabberwocky. These examples look very clean indeed whereas the one in question is...hmmm... well-used.

[rpguitar]

If it's priced right, I'd totally go for it. Mojo counts for something. Plus it's fun to take things apart and clean them, giving life to the guitar and restoring its pride. Pay attention to frets, though, as a refret costs money (often worth its weight in gold though).

[tgee]

I have a '53 ES-175. Gold knobs.

Tom

[Sam Sherry]

You're dealing with two different questions -- function and collector-value.

Function: It's a circa-1953 ES-175. Do you like the feel? Do you like the sound? Does it come with a decent case? Does it need a fret-mill, a refret or nothing? (When you pull the strings to the side are the frets clean or dented?) Does the truss adjust? Are you ready to pull the &^%#$%^& insulation out of the guitar just to test it out?

Collector-value: The knobs look like they're replaced, as many have noted. The tailpiece might be a vintage nickel-plated unit but is also not what this guitar would usually have shipped from the factory. That means somebody has monkeyed with the guitar and that a thorough examination of parts is in order. From the collector standpoint you would be verifying:

. Pickup original?
. Wiring harness? Tone cap?
. Tuners?
. Any re-spray showing under the black-light?
. Pickguard original (looks OK from here)
Etc.

If you're just gonna play it, don't worry about the details. If black is not your chosen knob-hue buy some repro knobs over-the-counter, put 'em on and smile.

If you're looking at either paying or obtaining collector dollars, restoring any guitar to "plausibly original" condition is an expensive PITA.

But you knew this already no doubt.

[vic]

You're dealing with two different questions -- function and collector-value.

Function: It's a circa-1953 ES-175. Do you like the feel? Do you like the sound? Does it come with a decent case? Does it need a fret-mill, a refret or nothing? (When you pull the strings to the side are the frets clean or dented?) Does the truss adjust? Are you ready to pull the &^%#$%^& insulation out of the guitar just to test it out?

Collector-value: The knobs look like they're replaced, as many have noted. The tailpiece might be a vintage nickel-plated unit but is also not what this guitar would usually have shipped from the factory. That means somebody has monkeyed with the guitar and that a thorough examination of parts is in order. From the collector standpoint you would be verifying:

. Pickup original?
. Wiring harness? Tone cap?
. Tuners?
. Any re-spray showing under the black-light?
. Pickguard original (looks OK from here)
Etc.

If you're just gonna play it, don't worry about the details. If black is not your chosen knob-hue buy some repro knobs over-the-counter, put 'em on and smile.

If you're looking at either paying or obtaining collector dollars, restoring any guitar to "plausibly original" condition is an expensive PITA.

But you knew this already no doubt.

Thanks Les Gear. Sure... I'm aware of what you're saying and it's very true. The guitar's electronics are original and apart from the tailpiece and knobs, it is original. I have not yet seen the guitar in the flesh, but a buddy took it for a drive and he is satisfied. So yeah...think I'll take it. I'm paying the equivalent of about $3700. It has its original Lifton case in fair condition. That is a plus for me.

[SamBooka]

I saw a parallelagram TP on ebay for 200$ today

[SamBooka]

Some of these may be from China but sellers are sometimes evasive about their provenance and try to pass them off as the real thing. You have to be very careful to check their provenance. If it is a real Gibson tailpiece, $200 would be a great price. But the real ones often sell for more than $350, especially the vintage ones from the 50s and 60s.

PS I just saw that $229 purported chromed 60s trapeze tailpiece. Yup, a fake tailpiece from China. Look at the end piece, the aperture and the raised diamonds. Then compare it with the actual Gibson tailpiece.

Good call, I will have to check it out.
i think I paid $40 for my Chinese gold parallelogram
Quality is the same as the cheap Chinese zigzagged that was on my es 165
You would think that a quality parallelogram in the hundred and $250 range would be a good seller

[wintermoon]

"Some of these may be from China but sellers are sometimes evasive about their provenance and try to pass them off as the real thing"


for example, I can't tell you how many of these I've seen sell for between $350-$500
now I suppose someone bidding may actually know that it's not a Gibson part but actually an Ibanez part that's broken or missing from their Ibanez guitar and the'yre willing to pay that much to restore it.

but it's not a Gibson part and I wonder how many bid unaware...



Vintage Gibson L5 L5C L 5 Archtop Johnny Smith Byrdland Gold Tailpiece RARE | eBay

[vic]

Some of these may be from China but sellers are sometimes evasive about their provenance and try to pass them off as the real thing. You have to be very careful to check their provenance. If it is a real Gibson tailpiece, $200 would be a great price. But the real ones often sell for more than $350, especially the vintage ones from the 50s and 60s.

PS I just saw that $229 purported chromed 60s trapeze tailpiece. Yup, a fake tailpiece from China. Look at the end piece, the aperture and the raised diamonds. Then compare it with the actual Gibson tailpiece.

Thanks guys. Will have to find the real deal otherwise the current TP can stay.

[vic]

Oh well....she doesn't look too bad Will arrive on Saturday from Johannesburg in Cape Town.....looking forward to that. Pity about the tailpiece and knobs. The original owner does not have it anymore.

[vic]

Received the '53 ES-175 a bit earlier.

Guys, I had a look at those control knobs and they look fairly aged. Could it be that this '53 is one of a very few that had black knobs ? (seen in the light that Gibson did use some black barrel knobs in the early 50's ) Well...I'd like to believe that...LOL !
The P90 is sweet sounding...real quality...and I get some excellent early rock 'n roll tones....especially with a bit of slap-back echo added. Good Jazzy tones too....I'm very satisfied.







Top row: on the left is the first Gibson electric knob as used on ES model guitars from 1947 to early 1950 (no numbers). Next to it is the ugliest pre-1970 Gibson knob, known as the "amp" knob, used from late 1966 to the mid-1970's (but not on all models).
Middle row, left to right: Tall numbered gold knob, used from 1950 to 1952, "speed" knob as used from 1953 to 1955, "bonnet" knob as used from 1955 to 1960, "metal top bonnet" knob or "reflector" knob as used from mid-1960 to mid-1970s (on many, but not all models).
Bottom row, left to right: switch tips used. The left switch tip was used on multiple pickup models from after WW2 to about 1960. This knob is bakelite and very amber in color. Next to it is the 1960 version where the switch tip changed to a plastic material that stayed white, and had a visible seam.
Bottom row black knobs, left to right: depending on the color of the guitar, some models starting in the early 1950's used black versions of the above gold knobs. These correspond to the same years as the above gold versions.